Mid-priced pressure omnis?

[jnorman]

well, my budget is not apparently going to allow me to get a pair of km131s or senn mkh20s or schoeps cmc62's, so i may try to pick up a pair of mid-priced true pressure (free field) omnis for spaced main pair for small chamber ensembles if there are any out there worth using. (currently using ORTF AT4051s with flanking AT4050s in omni.)

i am considering the following:

charter oak m900
AT4022
DPA 4090
avenson STO-2
used akg c460/480 with ck62 caps
blue omni mouse

some of those are not free field, some have teeny capsules with higher noise than i would like, some i have never heard. so, i would appreciate any comments, or recommendations -

are any of those worth trying?
are there other mid priced omnis you might suggest instead?
should i just keep saving for smoething better?

thanks.

[matt thomas]

you could also get the a RED mic (or the new BLUE equivalent) with a B4 or R4 cap

narco

[jnorman]

thanks narc - i think that is what the blue omni mouse is - the B4 capsule.

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by jnorman

thanks narc - i think that is what the blue omni mouse is - the B4 capsule.

yeah, the mouse is the same capsule (AFAIK) but you can use it as a tube mic if you use the red (or if you really want to spend lots you could get it with Bottle body)

I have heard the Sir George Martin like the B4 capsule on the blue bottle mics for classical.

that could just be a rumor, but they are listed on Air studios website

narco

[Don S]

For me, it would be between the DPA and Avenson. Check how the self noise compares, but I suspect the DPA would be a little better.

[squeegybug]

Originally Posted by jnorman

are any of those worth trying?

Avenson is definitely worth trying. Quite a difference from the 4050.

Steve

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by jnorman

well, my budget is not apparently going to allow me to get a pair of km131s or senn mkh20s or schoeps cmc62's................

The new MKH 8020 is considerably cheaper than the MKH 20.

In the UK a pair of MKH 20 is about £2,250 +VAT and a matched pair of MKH 8020 is £1,395 +VAT - That's about £850 cheaper - and the quality is about the same.

Just in case it's within your price range and could be included on your listen list.

[tnjazz]

Originally Posted by John Willett

The new MKH 8020 is considerably cheaper than the MKH 20.

In the UK a pair of MKH 20 is about £2,250 +VAT and a matched pair of MKH 8020 is £1,395 +VAT - That's about £850 cheaper - and the quality is about the same.

Just in case it's within your price range and could be included on your listen list.

MID-priced he said. MID.

Not UPPER.

MID.

(I wish I had your budget, John...)

[leddy]

Originally Posted by squeegybug

Avenson is definitely worth trying.

I'm sitting here with a pair of Avensons wondering if it's worth trying to put together a few grand for some MKH2020's or possibly Schoeps...

Utter madness. When does it stop?

[squeegybug]

Originally Posted by leddy

I'm sitting here with a pair of Avensons wondering if it's worth trying to put together a few grand for some MKH2020's or possibly Schoeps...

Utter madness. When does it stop?

When you are no longer obsessed with music quality?

For omnis I only used the treble-boosted MK2S. Also compared Gefell M296, T.H.E. TT-3M, etc. I kept the Avensons for their nice sound, and the others moved on. Although the TT-3M were very nice and quieter. Also much more $ of course.

Steve

[Corran]

I would consider a used set of Earthworks omnis (QTC-40 or 30) to be "mid" priced. I don't see them for sale often though (used). The self noise is slightly high due to the tiny capsule but I use freeware noise-removal plugins and you won't even hear it.

[matt thomas]

like these + B4's

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gears...-me-offer.html

narco

[Plush]

You should investigate the Shure KSM 141. It is a switchable omni/cardioid with a true omni characteristic. A matched pair is around $ 800. It is a copy of a Schoeps mic done by Shure. I had a hand in its design. It is a very good mic. Made in USA.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by tnjazz

MID-priced he said. MID.

Not UPPER.

MID.

(I wish I had your budget, John...)

OK, OK - I saw "DPA" in the list and assumed that his budget was higher than it was.

Now I have looked up prices - of the mics listed, I would probably go for the DPA 4090 it it was me spending the money.

[Bob Bickerton]

The Rode NT5 omni capsule punches well above its weight. It's a very good mic for the money.

This recording used a couple of Rode omnis as outriggers about 50/50 mix with M300s in ORTF:

http://www.bickerton.co.nz/Bin/Orchestra/Chabrier.mp3

Cheers

Bob

[erosconpollo]

If I already had a pair of AT4051s I'd be inclined to pick up a couple of 4049 omni capsules for them.

[springer]

I know some of you are going to scoff at this but I found the Audix TR-40 to be a VERY musical little guy. Very reasonably priced and can be had for a steal used. It is a measurement mic and extremely flat - hey didn't B&K used to make measurement mics...

[leddy]

Originally Posted by Plush

You should investigate the Shure KSM 141. It is a switchable omni/cardioid with a true omni characteristic. A matched pair is around $ 800. It is a copy of a Schoeps mic done by Shure. I had a hand in its design. It is a very good mic. Made in USA.

Plush, can you compare the Shures to the Avensons? (In terms of quality, exclusive of noise - I know these mics are too noisy for your use).

[ghellquist]

I am not quite sure what budget we are talking. Or exactly the price levels in your part of the world.

In my experience the Neumann KM183-s are really decent and they are quite a bit down in price from the KM131-s. In close micing they are a bit too bright as they are balanced to be used far off, but this can easily be handled by some gentle EQ.

And yes, I do have a pair that gets used quite often. I do use other omnis: the KM183-s do stand up well compared to as example the MKH20, a little differently voiced. A little noisier but well below the noise level of the Earthworks and well inside the situation for all concert situations I have recorded.

Gunnar

[mljung]

What about the SE Electronic SE4 with the new pressure omni capsule, has anyone tried this?

[audiothings]

fwiw, do some research on peluso cemc6, mojave ma100, chameleon labs ts-1, audio technica 4022...

in general, i find the ultra small diaphragm mics like avensons and earthworks have too much noise to be general purpose mics.

[fifthcircle]

If you don't mind tubes and having to lug a power supply around, I'd look at the Mojave MA100 seriously. It is a warm and natural mic with a touch of a sparkle on the top end. I have used them very successfully as main pairs as well as spots on groups. For acoustic guitar, it is one of my favorites out there. I would expect that it would be a pretty incredible harp mic as well.

Something to consider...

--Ben

[mljung]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

If you don't mind tubes and having to lug a power supply around, I'd look at the Mojave MA100 seriously. It is a warm and natural mic with a touch of a sparkle on the top end. I have used them very successfully as main pairs as well as spots on groups. For acoustic guitar, it is one of my favorites out there. I would expect that it would be a pretty incredible harp mic as well.

Something to consider...

--Ben

Interesting

A few questions Ben:
Would you recommend them for classical [if I read your post correctly you do], or do you find them too colored. You seem to have lost a bit of your enthusiasm for the MKH8040, or did I get you wrong.
Allow me the following question:
If you were to get out on a classical recording job [say orchestra] and you had to pick one pair to take with you as main pair, would you pick 8040 or MA100? And what if it was a grand piano?
By the way does the MA100 come as stereo-pairs?

Mads

[fifthcircle]

No not at all- still like my MKH 8040... Don't misunderstand me. I was just trying to write to the question which is about mid-priced omnis. Sennheisers are fantastic, but I have had the low end get me in trouble a few times and I'm not sure they would be the first thing I'd reach for in the case of say drum overheads. Heck, I just used them as a main pair for an orchestra this weekend. That is all... Don't read too much into what I say

I absolutely would recommend the MA100 for classical work. The mic I would compare them to the most would be a Neumann KM84 or perhaps a Schoeps (athough it is a bit more natural sounding in some cases than the Schoeps).

To answer your question- for an orchestra- it would be a tough call. I think both would work well- I'd probably bring the 8040's as a main pair as it would make life easier (no power supply and I bring enough junk to my recordings) and the low end in an orchestral situation can be an advantage- especially when you have loud repertoire with lots of low brass and low percussion. If the orchestra was playing Mozart or Bach, I may be inclined to bring Mojave.

For a piano, probably I'd bring the Mojaves and use them as omnis. I'm not a huge fan of the MKH8040 on piano.

The MA100 does in fact come in stereo pairs with a dual power supply for the two microphones.

--Ben

[mljung]

Thanks for the answers Ben

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

I absolutely would recommend the MA100 for classical work. The mic I would compare them to the most would be a Neumann KM84 or perhaps a Schoeps (athough it is a bit more natural sounding in some cases than the Schoeps).

Did you really mean this, that MA100 sounded more natural than a Schoeps [MK4?] it was supposed to be the other way round wasn't it?

[fifthcircle]

No- I said what I mean.

As always and with all mics, it isn't the case all the time (I hate making absolute statements as there are always times when they are wrong), the MA 100 is a very natural mic. The only reason why I don't own them currently is not that I don't like them (quite the opposite), but because of the issues in my work with using tubes in the field. It is the same reason why I'm not investing in many of the vintage mics out there- I don't want to deal with power supplies, etc...

There are certainly times that I'd use schoeps and other times that I use Sennheiser. They are all good mics with their strengths and weaknesses. Any pair of them would do you well- to have more pairs of mics just means that you have the opportunity to use more colors.

--Ben

[mljung]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

(I hate making absolute statements as there are always times when they are wrong)
--Ben

I agree on this one.

I have DPA4006TL which I often use, but would like another pressure omni pair - I have considered MKH8020 and will now maybe investigate MA-100 too.

[jayoski]

Has anyone tried the Josephson C617SET which uses a C617 body with a Microtech Gefell MK221 capsule?

Josephson C617 Set - Omnidirectional microphone | VintageKing.com

I've been intrigued with the possibility of using these as flanks. At $1750 each, they're not particularly cheap and at that point, I suppose they're probably not much cheaper than a pair of CMC62s.

AKG has reissued the 451 B, which at around $1200 for a stereo pair might be more in your price range. I don't know however if they are currently manufacturing the omni CK2 capsules as well. I haven't been able to find any info on that. I've used that combination for flanks in the past and was pleasantly surprised. If you could locate a matched pair of the CK2's, that might be a more reasonably-priced option.

[Marlan]

I agree with Plush.

Although I would advise anyone who is serious about recording, either as a hard core hobbyist or professional engineer to save up and buy a really high-end pair (and since microphones are the #1 MOST important part of any recording chain), If one is on a budget and must have a pair for roughly the sum of money that it being discussed, you would be hard-pressed to find a better and more versatile pair out there in my opinion.

For the money, the Shure's are hard to beat. They really sound great. I recently used them on an in studio classical guitar recording because I was curious and they really surprised me.

Good Luck with whatever you decide on.

[jayoski]

I'd have to say I agree with Plush and Marlan as well. Unless you can save up and get a pair of Schoeps, DPA, or some other equivalent, the KSM-141 might just be a good way to go if you're looking for 'bang for the buck.'

Shure makes great microphones. The KSM-32 would probably be my desert island mic. In cardiod mode, I found that the 141 had a crazy amount of rejection, which is really great in live applications or even when recording an acoustic guitar with the performer singing at the same time, but for my taste a little too thin in other applications. In omni however, it really opened up and yielded a much smoother off-axis response. I thought it sounded quite nice.