Location Recording for Film and TV

[danielbangs]

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[joaquin]

Hi Daniel and welcome to the forum!!
I'd say that basically the diference is that for Tv or Film, (usually) there's a lot less mics involved at one time, so it's a simpler signal flow. Also, the main issue with TV is portabililty, so a portable mixer with batteries is a must. also Mics usually are hidden, so boom poles and shotguns, and Lavaliers, and RF equipment, are also...a must. For Film...35,16mm, you'll need some sort of recorder. The original Nagra, has evolved into a bunch of different pieces of gear that you'll have to check for prices and options. For Tv, you'll usually record straight to the cameras at 48KHz 16bit, been the standar resolution for the medium.
It's pretty simple stuff, just avoid mixing mics and tripple check levels in the camera (recorder)...always try to monitor from it. There are mixers that will give you monotoring options that are most welcome when working with more than one camera.
The other aspect, is that you'll have to work with "talent" wich are a complete diferent beast from musicians. So you'll have to be careful with "personalities", and also protect their privacy when they have those lavs on, and go around the set talking BS.
I'd recomend, that you offer this services and Rent the Gear when a job shows up, then you'll have a concrete idea and will kow what's needed first hand.
I'm sure there's a lot of different scenarios that the knowledgeable people that frequent this forum will point. Hope it helps.......................Joaquin.

[danielbangs]

Thanks for your post Joaquin. I took a look at some of the gear you mentioned. I think the mixers and mic we have will be able to do the job pretty well. I'm glad that you said "It's pretty simple stuff" because, from an outsiders point of view, I was thinking quite the opposite!

I think our market will mainly be film, so a recorder would be need. The specialized recorders seem pretty expensive for what they are. Is there a way of doing this in a DAW environment (ProTools HD2, or MOTU DP4 on a laptop is what we use now) or using a hardware recorder (Mackie HDR24/96).

I have been looking at Gallery Softwares "MetaCorder" (website) which looks like a way to go. Can anyone advise?

Thanks

[dkatz42]

The specialized equipment is kind of pricey, but it is specialized after all. Depending on the situation, you may be expected to handle timecode properly (and flexibly), for instance. There are also issues of portability, power, and ruggedization that may make a DAW-based solution impractical, or at least difficult.

The Sound Designs 722 and 744 are Surprisingly Affordable, quite sophisticated in what they can do, and apparently they've hit the sweet spot because they've been backordered for months and the factory had to add extra shifts to meet demand. My 744t is supposed to arrive today (fingers crossed.)

The Aaton Cantar is absurdly expensive, but it looks like a Starship Enterprise Tricorder, so that almost makes it worth $15K.

[joaquin]

nice dkatz42!! please tell us what are your first impressions when the recorder arrives. here's a link to it http://www.sounddevices.com/products/744t.htm
I think is great, would love it to have 4 preamps tough...

[Mike Tholen]

I've been using the Nagra V for the most part, it sounds wonderful and has up until my last location job where it completly failed me, the drive wouldn't mount, quite odd as it was a rental from Nagra,it arrived in LA D.O.A.!! Turns out the ribbon cable or something internal was fuct (Nagra figuered this out after I lost a day and sent it back to Nashville. Iended up renting a Diva 4 track.
Let's just say this thing blew shit compared to the Nagra on ALL aspects. I had to use it anyway, so I strapped it in a NASCAR at the California Speedway and let Bobby Unser jr. have a go around the track. He came back after a few laps, I retrieved the Diva from the car and it had shaken soo much that the thing locked...no dice.
My job is too capture the sound of the car from the driver's and other drivers perspectives.
I ended up renting an analog Nagra 1/4" strapping it in the car and it worked flawlessly...I'll NEVER be stuck on location again without an analog backup machine, NEVER!!!

[Tillmann]

I spend about half of the year doing feature films and am a member of the IATSE Local 695 Motion Picture Sound Union in Hollywood. I spend the other half of the year doing my passion which is music recording and got my start in sound doing studio recording, so I have a pretty good aspect on doing sound for both sides of the business. Whilst the audio and technical knowledge needed for location sound recording is not as vast as for music (except timecode issues), it is still very specialized and is not something that you can just jump into. There are really many very specific things about it that you have to know very well- things that you are really not exposed to doing music. For example, "Where and how exactly do you hide that lavelier mic and wireless pack on the actor." "How exactly do you plant a mic in a car to get the best sound for dialogue?" These really are artforms in themselves. The list goes on and on.

Whilst the bare basics are the same, it's a completely different animal, and takes a lot of time to think out how you are going to set up your carts and the sort. Everything has to be extremely mobile and you need a backup for every peice of gear you have. Let me assure you, you HAVE to be very prepared for every situation, and particualrly with film, you will be thrown into every situation imaginable and you are expected to react fast or you will be promptly fired. Often there is a crew of 100-150 people collectively making as much as $15000 an hour or much more depending on the location that could be waiting on you to do your job, so you can't screw up too often. It's OK to wait for the camera, but not for sound, and that's just the unwritten rule. And the talent and other personalities, that's another touchy issue in itself. Hope this helps!

[RoundBadge]

I'm a local 695 mixer as well.although I'm less location oriented these days[more of a studio rat now] and my partner is a full time feature mixer.
I've been mixing tv/film/commercials for 18 years and it's a lot more involved than gear. Carts are all self[12-18 volts] powered and backups of everything are a must,especially in the mountians or deserts and beaches..get a lot of that here.. ..[redundancy is essential; of mic's, timecode slates,boompoles,wireless systems,director IFB's ,client headsets,etc,etc..fostex pd6[hard disk]..pd-4[dat]-and for remote bad weather,and as Mike says:nothing beats a good old analogue reel to reel nagra 4 TC..]
just remember on location, the sound Dept. VERY rarely gets second chances or extra time..rehearsals often are a luxury ..you mic up Eddie Murphy fast and do it right the 1st time or people start yelling..
And ...A great boom guy/girl and cable utility person will save you're ass every time!
not to scare you but thats how it is ..Completely different from the world of rock & roll.but great for practice in any remote recording situations ..you gotta be industrious and fast!and it helps if you get along with everybody.youd be suprised at how many music guy interns i've had let go because of thier lack of social skills on set..!you gotta be friends with a lotta people ..crews are any were from 15 to 250 people..
any questions PM me ...time permitting,I'd be glad to help .take care

[Bob Olhsson]

A lot of good answers!

I used to do post production work with Andy Wiskes who is a legendary production mixer. He told me lots of amazing war stories. One of the best was about how you really need to be able to hustle an egomaniac DP (director of photography) into thinking that HE has just had this great idea to change the shot so it will look better in a way that also "just" happens to sound a lot better. Serious social engineering skills.

Most production mixers hire trucks from time to time so it would be a good idea to contact some of the top folks in your area about working together.

[danielbangs]

Thanks to everyone who replied: You've given me a lot to mull:

One one hand, as I have researched, there is a massive market for this kind of thing over here, with a gaping hole in the mid to high-end market, below the very top guys. I am also surprised at the consensus that it is less complicated (if not easier to master) than music recording. Makes it quite an attractive challenge for someone, like myself, born and bred in the music industry.

On the other hand there is a lot of specialized (expensive) gear to get. That said, as an investment, the gear seems to hold its value better than the music oriented end of the market (which seems to have a shelf life of about a year!). Also, as mentioned, there are the skill you need to deal with the other crews, actors/ talent etc. (can they really be that bad?!). This is something that where a more experienced, and specialized sound team would do much better.

I think the only way to go is to do what an earlier poster suggested; start by hiring the equipment, and freelance guys, and move on from there.

I will keep posting our progress on this thread, for those that are interested.

Thanks again.

[Bob Olhsson]

The "gaping hole" is there because the cost of not using a production mixer who knows what they are doing is far greater than that of hiring one! The difference is a tiny drop in the bucket of an overall production budget.

[joaquin]

Originally Posted by danielbangs

Also, as mentioned, there are the skill you need to deal with the other crews, actors/ talent etc. (can they really be that bad?!).

It's not bad...It's just that you'll have to spend days, month, with a lot of people from all the diverse areas involved in film/Tv production, and one hand you'll learn a lot from them and on the other, you'll have to deal with some, that dont quite care for your craft, in order to have your space...camera man wants your boom as far as posible, DP...watch for those shadows, frantic "producer"...wich by the way multiply by the minute, wants your Lav in the talent's arm pit so it doesn't show...The point is that since human beings tend to follow the "stronger" (for the mayority) sense...sight, the do not give crap for the audio guy during production, and later....they cry in post!! Our job is way underrated most of the time...if it's perfect...nobody says nothing. If it's a hair below that..."the mixer suck".
Well...I dont know. This are my impressions, and like in all areas of life evry situation is diferent and depends of the individuals involved. Working "for" the visual arts is mostly fun and very diferent from job to job.
Haa one more thing...it (this job) may be easy but...like any other job, in order to master it...you'll have to do it a lot. Details make the difference

[Tim Halligan]

All good posts so far...
As far as location recorders are concerned, many directors get extremely nervous about gear they haven't encountered before, so - as others have suggested - rent the "known" gear until you want to make the leap into ownership.

If you aren't yourself, or you can't hire a topnotch boom-swinger, don't bother showing up...it's sadly that plain.

I've seen a number of music studios in my town try and make the leap into location and/or post and - without exception - they have failed miserably, mainly because they can't seem to grasp the basic concepts of working quickly, and unobtrusively in a film/tv scenario. Although it's still audio, film/tv is a completely different beast that has to be approached with a totally different mindset.

I don't want to put you off trying, but think really long and hard about doing this.

Best of luck.

Cheers,
Tim

[Remoteness]

Great suggestions. You're all totally on point.

Power to all the "Remoteville" folks.

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by danielbangs

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Brilliant work! Thanks so much.