multi-track console sound

[Walters]

When i mix down to 2 track stereo on my 24track recorder it doesn't
sound multi-track any more why is that?


Is it because it glues together the 24 tracks ?
lost the seperation sound of it sounding multi tracked
after i mixed down to 2 tracks what happened?
Why doesn't sound multi track anymore ?

Could it be that 24 tracks were running down
24 buss lines and now its not and it lost the
multi track sound?

What can make the mixdown to stereo make it sound
really really multi track to really hear those 24 tracks and
not just glued together so when your hear the cd it sounds
like your hearing it out of a big console sound?


What makes that console sound thats so special when you
hear it. It sounds like a console and not like a recorder or mixer
or pro tool it sounds like a console is it the Master output stage
thats the special part of the console to give it that special console
sound?

[Walters]

can your hear the 24 tracks very discrete so when someone
hears it they can tell its 24 tracks and hear the lay out of the
24 tracks and not like its glued up and molded together more
hearing the mulit-tracks

example let say i recorded a song with 52 tracks and gave you a
Cd of the song and you went back home and played the song
on your 2 channel stereo system. How would you know it was
52 tracks because you could hear it as a multi tracking Cd not like
all glued up and messed together to actually see it in your mind
the 52 tracks layed down seeing a console more of a multi track
production. How do i do this?

[Walters]

mixdown to stereo, you sum all of your tracks together

The summing part is it better to bring all the tracks out to
a mixer out from the Master fader circuit to control the summing
sections to give a more multi track CD then its all glued together
when summed doesn't sound multi tracked

[RichT]

Walters, if your sentences were shorter I'd almost say these were Haikus'...

What is the point of this thread??

[Biggs]

The answer is clear
You need 24 speakers
Or maybe EQ

[RoundBadge]

Huh???

[Mike Tholen]

sticky this one...

[Boby Stoica]

24 speakers is not a bad ideea. Of course, you can add more skill and get more cheaper on it.

Just kiddin'

.

[Raw-Tracks]

Originally Posted by Walters

Could it be that 24 tracks were running down
24 buss lines and now its not and it lost the
multi track sound?

It's possible that you may have a leak in one or more of you buss lines.

[blackfish]

it seems he wants to unmix his tracks to 2-track. ?

bounce to disk. somewhat interleaved?

render. completely unlistenable?

[thenoodle]

Walters. before you start a new thread with this next question...I'll answer it for you in advance.....

No.. you do not need 24 separate reverb units for each of your 24 tracks.


By the way...did you understand the detailed...true....recipe given previously for the Jimi Hendrix track?

[sounddevisor]

Biggs -

Nice one! How about this:

a question is asked
Walters does not understand
again a question

[thenoodle]

Walters is asking about transparent guitars on one forum... and frequency splitters for toasters (or something) on another.

This guy gets around. He must not have anything to do this week.

[dsteve]

all this "tech-talk" is making me dizzy

[RKrizman]

Walters turns the orb
Message appears in window
"Ask again later"

[Walters]

I think its the master fader circuit the summing network needs a summing
mixer to make it more multi-track right now the summing mixer is glueing
all the tracks together its not discrete anymore.

example: When playing back your tracks on a neve or SSL on any console
you can hear all the tracks more multi tracked sound but its
still coming out of 2 speakers but why does it sound more multi-
tracked then after when mixed down it losses something during
the playback before and after mixing it down to 2 tracks.

I want that before multi track sound onto CD when playing back your 24 tracks
on a neve or SSL its still only 2 speakers but sound way more multi tracked
then after mixing down something happens it glues and takes away the
multi track production sound.

[Lek]

I think this is why I'm a teacher of English to second language learners - he's asking why does the monitoring sound from his multitrack sound better than the resulting stereo mixdown. Translation - If one is monitoring the stereo mix, it should essentially sound the same as the mixdown being played back? (albeit if the mixdown deck is tape that will affect the sound a bit) He wants his final mix as appearing on a cd to send just like that originally monitored from his multitrack.

[Fajita]

Originally Posted by Walters

I think its the master fader circuit the summing network needs a summing
mixer to make it more multi-track right now the summing mixer is glueing
all the tracks together its not discrete anymore.

example: When playing back your tracks on a neve or SSL on any console
you can hear all the tracks more multi tracked sound but its
still coming out of 2 speakers but why does it sound more multi-
tracked then after when mixed down it losses something during
the playback before and after mixing it down to 2 tracks.

I want that before multi track sound onto CD when playing back your 24 tracks
on a neve or SSL its still only 2 speakers but sound way more multi tracked
then after mixing down something happens it glues and takes away the
multi track production sound.

MASTERING!

[Walters]

Mastering is just going to EQ and give more Hifi and headroom


why does the monitoring sound from his multitrack sound better than the resulting stereo mixdown?

final mix as appearing on a cd to send just like that originally monitored from his multitrack?


Its like when back in the analog days maybe in like 1971 to 1973 they use to
chain the tape decks together to make 24 tracks using 4 tracks so they had
more OUTPUTS going in a summing mixer and it sounded more multi track
when playing back it sounded like the summing mixer was a MASTERing console
to really but the tracks in BANDS and in ROWS to hear it more multi tracked.


4 tracks recording desks X 6 = 24 tracks

2 outputs per 4 tracks X 6 = 12 outputs going to a Mastering console summing
mixer giving a multi track production sound

1 reel to reel recorder - recording all the 12 outputs from the 24 tracks

how do i do this in pro tools ?

[maskedman72]

uh.......could you please repeat the question?

[thenoodle]

......."so they had more OUTPUTS going in a summing mixer and it sounded more multi track when playing back it sounded like the summing mixer was a MASTERing console to really but the tracks in BANDS and in ROWS to hear it more multi tracked..."


okee dokee...who's gonna tackle THAT?

I remember when we used to sync MCI jh24's back in 76 or so..we'd always sit there in the control room during playback and say to each other..."make it sound more multitrack". We must've not had our bands and rows right.

This has been fun following Walters all over the Internet with these questions the past couple of days.

[Walters]

Well how did your make it sound more multi track then noodle?

[toolskid]

most bands I know end up in rows

[GPl]

This is the most entertaining poster to date. It's like code cracking..

I think maybe he is wondering why his ITB mixes don't sound as good as a console mix? I think? Does that sound right? Anyways Sir Walters, I would do a search on ITB mixing and read on. Lot's of info on that here.

So to recap:

1) Search the site for ITB mixing
2) Research those threads
3) Apply some of what you learn to your PT mixes
4) Enjoy the results

[Mike Tholen]

WTF?
Out to lunch are we?

[thenoodle]

Actually, our job was to "make it sound stereo". And then for awhile, our job was "make it sound quad". And sometimes, "make it sound mono". A couple of decades later, it was, 'take these 128 tracks and make it sound surround".

We didn't have a button on the consoles (that I remember) that said "make more multitrack sound for long long time."

The basic math was...make it sound good through the number of speakers staring in your face.

Now I just know you're gonna pull a new twist with the question. This is fun.

By the way, your posts on other forums say you're in the US. If you're here in Calfornia like me, you might want to not sit so close to the 405 (you know...all the exhaust fumes etc)

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by thenoodle

By the way, your posts on other forums say you're in the US. If you're here in Calfornia like me, you might want to not sit so close to the 405 (you know...all the exhaust fumes etc)

Consider the way the multi lanes on the 405 become two lanes at the 101.....

-R

[Walters]

I know i have seen modifications where ever track on the console had outputs
on every track a direct output so you could go to a Master console and summing
mixer instead of using the summing mixing in the Master fader circuit in the
internal console. I think this might have alot to do what i am talking about
to make it more multi tracked

its not about quad or surround sound

I just know back in the early 70's it sounded very multi tracked production
maybe they copied alot of the same tracks or linked up more and more
tape desks to sound multi tracked by why would it give that multi track
sound in pro tools can have as many tracks as possible just need the hardware?

[echorec]

Originally Posted by gp71

I think this is why I'm a teacher of English to second language learners - he's asking why does the monitoring sound from his multitrack sound better than the resulting stereo mixdown. Translation - If one is monitoring the stereo mix, it should essentially sound the same as the mixdown being played back? (albeit if the mixdown deck is tape that will affect the sound a bit) He wants his final mix as appearing on a cd to send just like that originally monitored from his multitrack.

That´s how I read it too.

The sound should be as good if a great 2-track machine or a great A/D converter is used.

[Walters]

The direct outs in consoles are to all you to send a signal for
that channel and out to a SUMMING MIXING BOARD that goes
to a multi track recorder

What does that Summing Mixing board to make it sound multi track
before it goes into another multi track recorder?