Girl's Choir & Organ: What say you?

[tenor39]

I'm wanting some opinions on my first mix of a Girl's Choir that I tracked back in June. The piece is a Magnificat written by a local composer. The church was very big, as the "room" mic's were 150ft. away! The rig was DPA 4012's in X/Y with the Forssell pre, 4041's as omni outriggers on a modded HMA4000, 4003's w/nosecones waaaay in the back on a Millennia HV3. All came into my Cranesong Spider>Lynx AES16>Magma expansion chassis>HP laptop running Nuendo@88.2/24. Monitoring was a Mytek DAC96 into Ultrasone 750 cans.

Since the front 4 mic's were in a straight line, I didn't worry about time alignment. Just a tad of TC Vocal Strip on the X/Y pair, otherwise raw. I want your considered opinions of the mix, especially Plush, Roland, Ben, etc. BTW, why can't I get any music files to upload to the site? Jules says we can, so what's up?

[NorseHorse]

Nice.

My only objection is that it sounds like the organ it is almost coming from a whole 'nother room. I personally would prefer it a little more forward with the voices.

However, I'm used to smaller sanctuaries with very present organs.

[tenor39]

Originally Posted by NorseHorse

Nice.

My only objection is that is sounds like the organ it is almost coming from a whole 'nother room. I personally would prefer it a little more forward with the voices.

However, I'm used to smaller sanctuaries with very present organs.

Yeah, the organ was a pipe/electronic combo and the whole thing was a good 50ft. off the floor, behind and to the sides of the choir. Not a performance organ, for sure. The location was where I could get the best voice sound and organ balance in that room. It wasn't my first choice (that church) for the recording.

[hughesmr]

Originally Posted by tenor39

Yeah, the organ was a pipe/electronic combo

Yeah, the further away you mic one of those contraptions, the better!

BTW, magnificent job ... nice to hear a young choir with voices that good, so you don't need to back up to help hide individual issues or "create" blend! I like the focus in the voices that the X/Y creates in such a space, as it gives so much breathing room to the width captured by the flanks and room mics. Nicely done.

Can you give some approximations re. the relative levels of your mics (e.g. with reference to the mains)?

[tenor39]

Originally Posted by hughesmr

Yeah, the further away you mic one of those contraptions, the better!

BTW, magnificent job ... nice to hear a young choir with voices that good, so you don't need to back up to help hide individual issues or "create" blend! I like the focus in the voices that the X/Y creates in such a space, as it gives so much breathing room to the width captured by the flanks and room mics. Nicely done.

Can you give some approximations re. the relative levels of your mics (e.g. with reference to the mains)?

The levels were pretty close to each other in the mix, with the outriggers having a bit less than the mains and the room mic's having a little bit less than that. I want to know what you all thought of the X/Y pair sound. I'm not sure that I like it yet. Does it need to be a bit "warmer"?

[NorseHorse]

Choir sounded good to me. I guess I'd need to hear a different version to campare it with.

Also, whomever tuned the organ (matched the electric and pipes) did a good job.

[willi1203]

sounds awesome

[steveschizoid]

There is some noticable noise in the quietest (organ only) section, but otherwise it's quite euphonious!

[tenor39]

Originally Posted by steveschizoid

There is some noticable noise in the quietest (organ only) section, but otherwise it's quite euphonious!

Care to be more specific? The subs for the pedal notes had rizz in them that I could hear from 60ft. away. Is that what you're hearing?

[luigichelli]

i think he's referring to 2:53-3:00...
wonderful sounding choir, anyway imho you should try a denoiser.
Good job!

[hughesmr]

Originally Posted by tenor39

The levels were pretty close to each other in the mix, with the outriggers having a bit less than the mains and the room mic's having a little bit less than that. I want to know what you all thought of the X/Y pair sound. I'm not sure that I like it yet. Does it need to be a bit "warmer"?

If "warm" is the opposite of "bright", I'd say no. Such a reverberant space in my view should have some brightness to it, and that is finely captured as is. I would only wonder what the mix would sound like with the XY mains level lowered JUST a touch.... but that is just out of curiosity, not because of any shortcoming begging for a tweak.

Cheers!

[Roland]

Originally Posted by tenor39

I'm wanting some opinions on my first mix of a Girl's Choir that I tracked back in June. The piece is a Magnificat written by a local composer. The church was very big, as the "room" mic's were 150ft. away! The rig was DPA 4012's in X/Y with the Forssell pre, 4041's as omni outriggers on a modded HMA4000, 4003's w/nosecones waaaay in the back on a Millennia HV3. All came into my Cranesong Spider>Lynx AES16>Magma expansion chassis>HP laptop running Nuendo@88.2/24. Monitoring was a Mytek DAC96 into Ultrasone 750 cans.

Since the front 4 mic's were in a straight line, I didn't worry about time alignment. Just a tad of TC Vocal Strip on the X/Y pair, otherwise raw. I want your considered opinions of the mix, especially Plush, Roland, Ben, etc. BTW, why can't I get any music files to upload to the site? Jules says we can, so what's up?

http://www.recordclassical.com/image...%20Excerpt.mp3

I have to say I liked it very much. I don't have a problem with the organ sounding more distant, it sounds like I would expect it too sound and the choir is what I want to hear the focus on, which is what I'm getting. Interestingly I can here the "reach" of the X/Y pair more than I thought I would having viewed the session pic's, in this situation I would have possibly just used an AB or MS pair, possibly without the outriggers.

Personally I don't often use cardioid mains and I'm not a fan of XY (cardioid) setup's. I think the recording demonstrates that thoughtfully done a number of reasonable techniques can work well. I hope your client is suitably pleased, IMHO they've got a great result.

Regards




Roland

[phil.]

Lovely Sound. Very open, yet with great detail. I think the Combination of XY and Outriggers works very well in your situation. thumbsup

Quick question. What are the stands you are using and roughly how high did you have them for this session?

Best,

phil.

[sonare]

I agree with Roland's remarks, and would add that some clarity in the organ would be a good thing, as it is pretty mushy even by itself, and especially with moving parts. Are these canticles published?

The overall sound is pleasing, and frankly I expected something much brighter given the mics involved. But you avoided the crunchy consonants, which was probably a result of the high placement. Must be a fairly dark-sounding reverberation, which proves you got a good room and mic combination.

I would expect the redbook to have a little more top than the mp3, but not knowing what codec you used I can't be too sure. Nice.

Rich

[postdigital]

hi,

i enjoyed the music and recording sounds great.

would love to hear if the organ could sort of surround or kind of encapsulate the choir somehow.

given the spiritual nature of the text, it would be nice to kind of let the more 'evil' overtones permeate the mix for the sake of ontological balance.

[Plush]

I enjoy the recording for its "cathedral-esque" sound and good singing.
The group is a good one!

For me the organ is placed correctly in the stereo picture. I want to hear the singing and the texts. Your omni mics made the sound for you.

Very nice job---endorsed!

[sonare]

Originally Posted by postdigital

given the spiritual nature of the text, it would be nice to kind of let the more 'evil' overtones permeate the mix for the sake of ontological balance.

Could you re-state this in musical and sound engineering terminlogy?

Rich

[tenor39]

Thanks for all of the constructive comments, guys. The organ was one of the worst I've encountered in a church recording. The location of the pipes/speakers was purely an asthetic decision, I think, and the organist and I played with the stops a lot to get what we had.

In the pic's you can see the location of the pipes, with the subs being on top of the center wall behind the choir. The other issue is the large chapel space that is directly behind the choir that is open into the sanctuary, with no solid wall to reinforce the choir. It functions as a large Helmholtz resonator and that's why the pedal notes tend to overpower the rest of the organ, I believe. I doubt the architects even considered the acoustics when designing things this way. I would have mic'd the choir from a lower vantage point if there had been a real wall behind them. BTW, I'm up about 15ft.