budget mic for recording sax

[jmshap]

I was wondering if someone could suggest a decent mic for recording. I only want to spend around $200 but want something better than what I have. I have an MXL 990 and 603S. Between the two I like the clarity of the 603 and the warmth of the 990. Neither are great but neither stink. I have been doing a lot of reading and have come up with the following as possible options. I mostly play jazz.

CAD M179
MXL V69
SM57
Kel HM-1
Sterling Audio ST44

Does anybody have any other suggestions/insight or experience with any of these? Or possible other suggestions? Any help would be greatly appreicated.

Thanks.

[LP2006]

I've been loving the Cascade Fat Head on sax lately. I would look in the ribbon direction.

[staudio]

I don't really like many cheaper condensers, so I am going to recommend that you use a dynamic instead.

A SM57 will get the job done with careful positioning.
It costs a little more, but a Sennheiser 421 would be nice.

I haven't used a Fat Head, but ribbon mics are usually great for brass.

[jmshap]

Thanks. Do ribbons give enough detail? I have never used one before. I currently own an MXL 603S and a 990. The 990 is warmer but lacks the detail the 603 has.

Do you have the Fat Head or Fat Head II?

I am tempted to try to borrow a 57 and try it out. I usually use a clip on live but played through a 57 live a few months ago and loved it. Never tried one for recording.

[LP2006]

I've used a fat head on sax. I also own some ribbons from a group buy on a forum similar to this. There is no sonic difference between the fat head I and the fat head II.

In short, they all seem to smoke the cheap condensers big time on sax. If I had someone who could play sax handy, I could actually give you audio samples for comparison.

But alas, no sax player.

[johnbohn]

I'd go with the Fathead too.

PS: I've never heard any one describe a 990 as 'warm'...tutt

[HeavyG]

I agree that a Fathead (or a similar quality ribbon) would do a great job on Sax. For $300 a pair, I am not sure that you can find a more versatile mic that outperforms it.... I am going to buy a pair as soon as I can free up the cake.

[Herman Munster]

I recently used an old CAD E-200 on sax and was pleased with the results. It's a dark mic, so the end product was pretty warm. Check out my band's myspace site and listen to Black Orpheus and Fly Me to the Moon. I used the CAD on both tracks. These mics can be had for around $200 or less (originally were more than $1000....

[Corran]

I use Oktava MK-219s almost exclusively for saxophone. It has a ton of clarity and warmth. The only thing better is the tube Oktava MKL-2500 (same capsule). The MK-219 is about $100 on ebay, but you'll love it. the 2500 can be had for $250 or so, depending on the numbers on ebay (I got on for $150!).

[Jungle Jazz]

What kind of sax(es) are you talking about, and what is the context you'll be working in (studio, live)? If it's a tenor, and you'll be playing jazz where at least some of the instruments are in the same room, I'd look at a good dynamic first. With a little more money, you might be able to get a used RE20 or SM7, either of which will be a good, versatile mic for other purposes. You could also check out offerings from Beyerdynamic (69, 88). You could even go a long way with an SM57, and Heil has some mics worth look at as well (PR30, PR40).

While a ribbon will give you a nice warm sound, personally, I'd lean towards a dynamic rather than a ribbon, just because the usual figure 8 pickup pattern can be troublesome in live jazz recording situations. But if you'll only be working in a studio, then that may not be a problem for you.

While I think the CAD M179 is a terrific bargain--I have three--it wouldn't be my first choice for recording sax. It does, however, work well on piano, drums, upright bass, and even occasional vocals. I'm sure it could produce usable results on sax, but it just wouldn't be my first choice.

If you've got a decent music shop nearby that deals with used equipment, see if you can get a used SM57 (or maybe an Audix i5), which are common enough. Try that as a place to start, and if you don't like it, at least you'd have a well known place to start for comparison.

By the way, over at the Remote Possibilities forum, they talk about jazz and acoustic music a lot more often, and doing a search there could yield some very productive results.

[jmshap]

Jungle Jazz,

Thanks a lot of your insight. It was very helpful. I was actually leaning towards a M179 or a dynamic mic because I will be recording in a live type setting. I was just hesitant to go with the SM57. I was hoping to get something a little better like an RE20 but can't afford it. Do you think a 57 would sound good? How about an e609? I really need to borrow a 57 and try it out.

Thanks again.

[Jungle Jazz]

Okay, how about you try this: at the moment, you can get an M179 for $149 at Front End Audio. Warren Dent, who runs the place, is a regular poster on GS and will treat you well. Tell him your situation, and I bet he'd let you return the mic if you didn't like it (and it was in perfect condition).

If you can't borrow an SM57, look for a used one, which you could probably get for 50-60 bucks. Just make sure it's a real one, as there are some fakes floating around out there. So, for around your $200, you can get both the M179 and a 57. Try them out and see what you think. Even if you don't use it for sax, the M179 is a mic worth having, so too the 57.

I can't comment on the e609 as I've never used it.

[Corran]

Oh yeah by the way, if you want to actually hear my suggestion, all the jazz clips on my website with saxophone are with the MK-219. Meant to mention that before.

[jmshap]

I have decided that I really need to check out some dynamic mics. It sounds like the RE20 would be great for my situation but I just can't afford one right now. Does anybody have any experience or suggestions regarding less expensive dynamic mics. I am looking at stuff like the Blue Ball, SM57, Audix IX and Senheiser e609. Am I missing any? Thanks again for all your input.

BTW, I did some mic position testing last night and definitely found that parallel to the sax, just high than the bell pointed towards the right side of the horn really works well. Out of what I have I like the MXL 603S the best. Tonight I am going to experiment with both my 603's at the same time and see what I can come up with.

[Ludwig]

I tried various mics a while back including a Rode K2, an AKG 451, 414 and an Rode NT1a, the winner was...the NT1a

[soypancho]

I clicked on this thread having completely misread that.

The economy isn't the only thing suffering lately

[jmshap]

So, I wasn't able to borrow a 57 but I was able to borrow a 58. I liked the sound of it so much more than my MXL 990. Here is a clip of the 58.

http://www.jasonshapiro.com/sunny.mp3

Do I like it better because it is a dynamic mic or because it isn't a crummy LDC? Now, I don't know if I should just pick up a 57 or an Audix i5, or the CAD. I am also seriously considering the HM-2D because it is modeled after a large diaphragm dynamic mic. I really wish there was an easy way to go check out mics somewhere. I thought finding a mouthpiece was hard.

[Corran]

In general, a decent dynamic will be better than a cheap condensor.

I still don't find 57s/58s that great, but if you like it, use it! I personally just find my condensors better. Though if I were you I would get rid of that MXL 990. I bought one on a whim and thought it was the worst sounding mic ever (sold it in a week). I just got a pair of 603s' though, and I am really liking them. However I'm not too fond of SDCs on sax over a nice LDC.

[DJBlueDrink]

I've had good results with my script logo 421.

[KeithMoonwannabe]

I've owned the e609 and they are great mics HOWEVER I play drums and guitar so I cannot comment on it's performance on brass and woodwind instruments but judging by experience with the i5, 57, and 609 I'd say the 609 or 57 would probably be best suited in the around $100 range (new that is). I think the i5 would be kinda muddy on sax but I could be wrong (I always found it to have a much bigger bottom end and proximity effect so I guess with proper positioning it could be killer).

Another dynamic option that works well for wind instruments are the N/D767A and N/D967A from Electro-Voice. I've played a lot of jazz gigs with groups and they miked saxes and wind instruments with those and I liked the sound. That's not too much more money.

The e906 was far better on guitar cabs imo than the e609 so that might be another option these typically go for around $180 new. Plus you get a 3-way tone switch (smooth, natural, bright) so this mic may be really useful. I sold my two e609 to get one e906 I liked it that much....and I loved the e609....

Now if you can get an MD421, RE20, or Heil PR30 / PR40 you are in another league. Since you are doing live recording stuff AVOID THE RIBBONS. You could probably swing one of these LDD mics for your budget if you look used. These are going to SMOKE the other mics you're considering in the $100 range. Plus these will hold their value forever they are legends just like the SM57.

You will have too many issues with a ribbon mic and I love ribbon mics to death but just seriously leave em in the studio.

Again feel free to take this at a grain of salt only my friends are wind players not me. I'm just the one that owns too much recording/live sound gear. But again I don't have much hands on experience miking brass/wind instruments.

[Jungle Jazz]

Glad to hear you got hold of a 58. That's a standard point of departure, so you can judge other mics against it. If possible, try whichever mics you are considering getting in the context of a live group performance (assuming that's what you'll be recording eventually). That will give you a better idea of what the real sound will be like.

Ideally, it would be great if you could book an hour or so in a studio with a well-equipped mic locker where you could spend some time trying out a bunch of mics at once. Of course, that may end up adding an additional cost, but you'd get a real good sense of what different mics sound like on your instrument.

There's plenty of folks who like the previoulsy mentioned MD421, but that mic is usually quite a bit more than your stated $200 budget. Although, you my find that in order to get the sound you are after, you may need to spend a little bit more. However, for a budget of up to $400, (or maybe $300 for used), you could really consider some of the finer dynamic mics, like the RE20, SM7B, MD421, Beyers, and Heils. In the long run, what you'll remember is the sound, not the money you spent to get it.

A mic I've been curious to try on sax is the EV N/D468. I've got a couple of them, and they're great for percussion and close micing guitar cabs, but they are advertised as horn mics, and they usually sell for less than $200.

[KeithMoonwannabe]

The E/V mics sounded good to my ears I forgot to mention that model....they work really well also....

E/V really makes killer mics.

[loujudson]

421. I have three I paid $150 each for, and for live recording they rock seriously.

One alto player recently brought his own 57 to a gig, and after he stuck the stupid screen back on the plastic top I had to EQ the heck out of it to keep it from squawking and making me wince. I hate 57s but this was one fo the worst (through mistreatment in a gig bag of a musician) and he didnt' like a 421. But HE didn[t' haveto hear the FoH mains. And it wasn't a recording. Oh, never mind.

as I said, 421. Always works. The other stuff does too, but I go to my 421s.

L

[Corran]

Originally Posted by KeithMoonwannabe

You will have too many issues with a ribbon mic and I love ribbon mics to death but just seriously leave em in the studio.

I disagree. I have 5 different ribbon mics and my jazz recordings often use 3-4 of them. They are great for a lot of things. I even bring out my vintage Bang & Olufsen ribbons which are 40 years old (one with the original ribbons, even). As long as you are careful and tell people to be mindful, you'll be fine. I always keep the mic stands well away from anything until they are needed and then move them back when they are done.

[jmshap]

Originally Posted by loujudson

421. I have three I paid $150 each for, and for live recording they rock seriously.

One alto player recently brought his own 57 to a gig, and after he stuck the stupid screen back on the plastic top I had to EQ the heck out of it to keep it from squawking and making me wince. I hate 57s but this was one fo the worst (through mistreatment in a gig bag of a musician) and he didnt' like a 421. But HE didn[t' haveto hear the FoH mains. And it wasn't a recording. Oh, never mind.

as I said, 421. Always works. The other stuff does too, but I go to my 421s.

L

What is the best place to look for used mics? I keep looking on eBay but the prices seem to be pretty high.

[tnjazz]

beyerdynamic M69 always seems to work for me

[jmshap]

I couldn't resist the good deal at Front End Audio on the M179 so I ordered one this morning. I am curious to experiment with some mid-side recording of my entire group as well. My next purchase will definitely be a decent dynamic mic. Thanks for all those recommendations. If anyone is interested I will post a recording of the M179 when I get it.

Thanks again.

[jmshap]

So, I have been doing some comparison's of the M179 and the SM58 I borrowed. The M179 definitely is a little more airy and big sounding but I actually think I like the sound of the SM58 better. I think it is picking up more of the core sound of my tenor versus an overall sound from the M179. The CAD seems to have more lows and is a little less brilliant. I have experimented with mic placement as well as the different patterns. The last thing I need to experiment with is the roll-off. Anyway, my question is should I try a 57, just buy a 58 or are any of the other similarly priced dynamic's going to be better for sax. I have read the following are decent mics.

e609
I5
Heil PR20
Blue Ball
am I missing any?

Thanks.

[eskatonic]

I recorded trumpet and sax last night for a salsa tune. I recently picked up a pair of KSM32s (for overheads) but ended up using them for horn duty. It sounded wonderful with sax.

[homestudioguy]

I used to have a Studio Projects C3 and it sounded surprisingly nice on my Symphony Bore Tenor trombone (ART GOLD MPA tube pre with a Tung Sol 12AX7).
The bell of my horn is of a darker brass that provides a bit of warmer darker tone.
The C3 did a nice job of brightening up the sound but not over the top like some low-cost LDC's do.
The newer Studio Projects C1 is $239.
Studio Projects C1 Reviews | Sweetwater.com