Motion picture audio costs

[dhughes]

Does anyone know where to find information and the average percentage of a film's budget that goes towards audio production? Also, what about the percentage of game finances that goes towards audio production?

Any help is greatly appreciated

[radiospace]

"Audio production" in film terminology is sound recorded on the set, while filming.

"Audio post-production" is sound editing, music, ADR, etc., that happens after filming.

You probably mean the sum of all these elements? (Though in a professional film budget audio production and audio post-production would not be listed together. In fact audio production equipment fees might be listed along with camera equipment fees.)

In other words your question is complicated not only by their not really being such a thing as an "average" film, but also by the fact that the real costs are going to be divided up into, probably, three different areas of the film budget (production sound, post-production sound, and music), each of which has numerous sub-categories (i.e. post-production sound includes editing, Foley, and ADR).

Anyway, the short answer is probably "not much." My guess is the lower budget the film, the lower a percentage is spent on audio post-production, down to the lowest budget film, where *no* money is spent on audio post-production (they make the picture editor cut and mix the audio inside Avid dfegad). On the other hand, a big action picture like Independance Day probably has a large staff of people cutting effects, has most of the dialog re-recorded in ADR (because all the explosions, grinding wire harnesses, and hi-speed cameras on set ruin the production sound) and a ton of Foley work done; thus it would have a substantial post-production sound budget, perhaps larger than the picture editing (but not nearly as large as the visual effects)..

[dhughes]

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I do really mean the sum total of money put into audio for film. I'm not looking for a specific number, I'm more looking for an average percentage with big production Hollywood films. Even just an example of one film, such as Indepedence Day would be very helpful.

We have EA (Electronic Arts) here in Orlando and, for instance, they have about 1 "audio person" per every 300 other employees. As we, at UCF, are building a gaming academy I am trying to make a point that they gaming industry is really missing the mark. And that the answer to the question: "Why aren't my games as compelling as films" can be partly found in the difference in attention given to the sound design.

Thanks for the help. More please.

[dhughes]

Just to add to this. I design audio for games myself and the audio folks who work in the industry are fantastic. But they are under-staffed, under-paid, and under-funded. They do the best they can with what they have.

[Realtugs]

I would hazard a guess of between 3% - !0% on average.

[Kent]

Based upon?

Originally Posted by Realtugs

I would hazard a guess of between 3% - !0% on average.

[heinz]

Originally Posted by dhughes

Just to add to this. I design audio for games myself and the audio folks who work in the industry are fantastic. But they are under-staffed, under-paid, and under-funded. They do the best they can with what they have.

That's pretty much the case where I work (X-box). Audio guys really get the shaft relative to the amount of work that goes into the visual aspects.

Part of this is because game audio playback technology has really stagnated next to the video tech, which continues to evolve at an obscene rate. So while programmers work like mad putting together the latest pixel shaders and screen effects, and huge teams of artists create content for years, the same project will have one audio guy in a room with a copy of pro tools and a cheap 5.1 system to do all the audio. So a lot of it gets outsourced (at least the music & v/o stuff) while the audio guy hooks it all up to the game engine.

Until there is a consumer demand for better audio production values, I don't see why game outfits like EA & MS will put more resources behind them. If it sounds fine coming out of those little tiny Boston Acoustic desktop speakers, then it is fine. It's a pretty sick situation that I have yet to see a clear way to fix.

[quadwould]

from a strickly Post Production Budget standpoint... of the films i have been working on recently. the percentage of the whole that i have been getting paid seems to be 3-6.5%

5% is the average.

and i have been doing all the audio post aside from composition.

these are mainly indie short films with 10-40k budgets. one or 2 indie features with 100k-ish budgets.

Dont know what the HoLLySH!t 10M+ type films budget.

the funny thing is that for most of the 10-40k indies.. they seem to alocate very little to the Production Sound.

I have been getting very amature sounding production sound. (like 2 channels of the Same level?? why 1 channel should be 6-10db quieter. its coming from a MONO mic anyway. whats the use of a duplicate/identical track) bad mic techniques (audible bumps, wind, etc...) bad levels.. (distortion, or too quiet)

I have been doing the best i can to salvage these things. and i usually do it..

i have also been doing the best i can at educating the producers, directors, etc etc anyone that they need to spend more money, thought, and time with the sound.
Getting better location sound, Knowing what to listen to and for. knowing when to cut a take because of extranious noises ( that the soundman is probably wanting to say Cut for anyway.. but is usually not allowed) Having a budget (and willing actors) to do ADR.

Taking ambient tone samples of EVERY location and for at least 30 seconds. with Noone there (so no squeaking, coughing, breathing, etc etc)


I think that if everyone doing production or Post production sound for picture should try to educate everyone they can about the importance of sound. the more people realise its importance.. the more they will be willing to spend on it

[qubi]

Been reading a couple good books on the topic of scoring for film and tv, "complete guide to film scoring" and "The reel world". The general impression i've gotton is that the Music composition and production gets around 1-3% of the budget.. Now some big name composers may get $700k + in fees alone, but thats the exception. the few indi low (very low) budget movies I've worked on have paid from nothing (favours) to around $1.5 to 2.5K.. plus the promise of points or more money if the film gets sold (yeah, right!). not too sure about total cost of other pre and post audio work..

[dhughes]

Thanks a lot guys! I'm curious if the 1-3% that you mention is for the music and music production budget only. Or does this also include sound design production too?

[dhughes]

and again...I'm am including post-production in my definition of "production" here

[qubi]

The 1-3% is just for the Music composition and production, not sound design.. Although it does sometimes include licensing fees for songs, but not sound design or adr.. As far as i know..

[Realtugs]

Originally Posted by Kent

Based upon?

About 12 years of feeding myself through the industry.

I eat rather well too.