Organ near and far

[d_fu]

Just a lil' organ recording... In order to have options, (I like fixing it in the mix... ), I put up one pair of Neumann KM 131 on the balcony and another pair of Beyer MC 801 omnis (which have a fair amount of treble boost, almost 10 dB) a good bit further away. I find that considering the distance, they don't sound so different, and the Beyer recording certainly doesn't drown in reverb.

Will use some kind of mix, eventually..


Daniel

[hughesmr]

Ahh, nothin' like a little Reger chorale fantasia to start your morning off right!

Nice job, Daniel. You are right in that a good mix will bring out the best of both perspectives. The Neumanns are too close by themselves IMO. If I had to choose one pair only, it would be the Beyers, but still would wish for a touch more detail.

I know this is highly contrapuntal music, but the sense of awe one gets from being "enveloped" by the room is essential. Look forward to hearing your mix, and how you mixed them.

[summer_room]

Very nice! I also look forward too hear the mix!

Too bad the balcony style is too close in general - its an easy approach when there's no back positiv, and you are recording your own playing...

Is it you playing, Daniel?

-Jon

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by summer_room

Is it you playing, Daniel?

No...

[aracu]

Those files sound like they will make a near perfect mix together... great organ sound!

[HarrisKarlin]

The Beyers are a great room mic, a really nice wash to them that I would barely touch with eq.

I wish one the Neumanns were closer sounds, I'd love to feel closer that organ. Maybe you can pull something out of the high-mids to feel a little tighter.

[sonare]

I came up with a boom rig for just such situations where the balcony is a little close to the case. It consists of a 17ft Bogen (without the top section extended) attached to a beefier 12ft Bogen (not up at all) by mean of an adapter head. Add a counterweight and your done.

This way I can get mics about 13 ft away from the balcony which makes for a big improvement. I will try to get a pic up if there's interest.

Rich

[mrsteaks]

Originally Posted by sonare

I came up with a boom rig for just such situations where the balcony is a little close to the case. It consists of a 17ft Bogen (without the top section extended) attached to a beefier 12ft Bogen (not up at all) by mean of an adapter head. Add a counterweight and your done.

This way I can get mics about 13 ft away from the balcony which makes for a big improvement. I will try to get a pic up if there's interest.

Rich

I'd love to see it, Rich. I'm always looking for ideas on how to place mics.

[summer_room]

Something like this, Rich?

RECORDING Pipeorgan recording

It's a risky setup, me think...
-jon

[sonare]

The link to the photo is certainly one way to do it, but it does seem to lack beef. Depends on total weight, assuming the counterweight does its job.

You can see what I am using, which is not terribly different. The main thing is that I put the sandbag on the stand base, and connect the "boom" to a leg with a length of gaffer. If you really want to spend some $$ there is K&M high-quality stand available in Europe (#20811) that can have a boom (#21231) attached that is solid and heavy.

I also listened to the clips. The 131s sound quite, but need a little blending. THe Beyers are REALLY bright and the bass line against the chorale melody is total mush-- not musically acceptable IMNSHO. When pitches are no longer defined the line has been crossed!

If you can delay the mains in your DAW then it would be beneficial to mix in a LITTLE of the Beyers to fill out the sound and give the room more "space."

Rich

[summer_room]

Originally Posted by sonare

You can see what I am using, which is not terribly different. The main thing is that I put the sandbag on the stand base, and connect the "boom" to a leg with a length of gaffer. If you really want to spend some $$ there is K&M high-quality stand available in Europe (#20811) that can have a boom (#21231) attached that is solid and heavy.

Ok Rich, I've got to try your long boom style. What kind of adapter head are you using to connect the two stands?

The 20811 + 21231 was my first stand (!), at 14+ kilos I have not used it much (I dont have a car ). Its a real secure base stand, its heavy like a speaker stand - but the boom is (only) 2 meters long, and you have to use some of length for the counterweight.
A alu manfrotto must be perfect as a boom...

-jon

[sonare]

The downside of my setup is that the 17ft stand that is the "boom" wants to bend a bit even if the very top section is not extended. I never put anything heavy out there-- usually a Schoeps ORTF bar with the active cables so it is really only the caps. Nonetheless, the top sections are not completely straight afterwards.

If you do some Googling you can find a LONG (19ft ?) and expensive boom setup that is carbon fiber and costs nearly $1000 US. OUCH!

The head adapter I use is made by Lowepro:

Lowel | Grip | KG | B&H Photo Video

Rich

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by sonare

I also listened to the clips. The 131s sound quite, but need a little blending.

Thanks for listening.
I think there's an adjective missing here after "quite"...

THe Beyers are REALLY bright and the bass line against the chorale melody is total mush-- not musically acceptable IMNSHO. When pitches are no longer defined the line has been crossed!
If you can delay the mains in your DAW then it would be beneficial to mix in a LITTLE of the Beyers to fill out the sound and give the room more "space."

The Beyers were never meant to be used alone Next time I'll turn them sideways a bit, even at that distance..

As for the mix, so far my approach was different, adding some Neumann direct sound to the Beyers, and no delay. After a quick test, I seem to prefer that to the approach you suggested, but I'll experiment some more. Hmm, maybe you're right... And maybe not - it varies from piece to piece...


Daniel