recording a jazz combo

[richsorr]

Hey all, Next week I am going to be recording a jazz combo consisting of Vocals (female), guitar, bass, trumpet, trombone, drums, and 2 saxes (alto and tenor)

I have never done a jazz recording before and was wondering what mics and preamps i should use on what. my studio is small so i will probably do teh rhythm section at once, and the horns and vocals seperate.

the mics i have are a Neumann TLM103, (4) sm57s, (2) Oktava MC012s, (2) Shure PG81s, Berhinger B2, Shure Beta 52

the preamps i have available are an Avalon AD2022, Focusrite ISA428, ART MPA, and the pres on my control 24.

also anyone have any tips or tricks whenrecording jazz??

thanks

[C.Lambrechts]

imho you need a couple of ribbons. especially for the winds.

That looks to be your biggest 'missing' element in what you allready have.

[lucey]

keep the drums mics to a minumum

mic around the drums, and everything else ... nothing too close, use your room sound

ribbons as often as possible, i second that

[Jan Folkson]

Typically jazz is not cut to a click so overdubbing becomes problematic unless the drummer is just keeping time. Fermatas become big timing issues as the band may play them differently for each take. I'd suggest trying to cut everything at once.

Regarding the mechanics, I'd try to isolate the drums and vocals as much as possible. Typically, I'll set the brass/winds up high to low in a shallow arc, each with their own mic, ribbons or condensors would work out fine. Alternately you can just get the brass with a pair of condensors in an x/y. This method would probably sound great, but not give you lots of control at mix time when each one might take a solo. If they're experienced players it should work out ok though.

The biggest obstacle you'll face aside from a room that might be too small is your limited selection/amount of mics. The pres you have should be able to get the job done.

HTH.

[cgarges]

Upright or electric?

What are your room/isolation options like?

Will everyone be playing at the same time?

How essential is eye contact?

If you can tell me these things, I can give you a few pointers in terms of what's worked for me recently.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[richsorr]

I think he will be using an electric. those are the only mics i will have available for this..i know, i need to do some upgrading. i just have a live room isolated from my control room and an auralex max wall i use to seperate when theres more then one player in the live room. my room is pretty small, and im not sure if ill be doing everyone at once

[lucey]

please record live

if it's not right re-do it, it's faster and better than a punch or 3

headphones and music, especially with jazz, are not the best ways to results

[22busy]

Bleed can be your friend!

[richsorr]

I'm going to try to do everything live, if i cant, ill have to do the horns seperate from the rhythm section. now what about which mics and pres to use on what?

[lucey]

Originally posted by richsorr
I'm going to try to do everything live, if i cant, ill have to do the horns seperate from the rhythm section. now what about which mics and pres to use on what?

can you give the room size and expected layout of the band in the room?

[neve1073]

Don't track the guitar with compression!!!!

[PRobb]

Jazz is about the live interaction of the performers. Recording jazz is about getting what you hear in the room to come out of the speakers. So you should go live if at all possible and use as few mics as you can.
Pay very careful attention to
the physical layout of the players. The distances and relationships will help make the leakage work for you. Also, you want the players to be able to hear each other and rely on the cans as little as possible.

Try the Oktavas either overhead or a few feet in front of the drums at the level of the top of the top of the rack tom. The point is to get the get the kit as a single instrument, not a collection of individual voices. Remember jazz drums do not always need the presence of close miced kick and snare. If you need a more modern sound you could add the 57 on snare and the 52 on kick, but the sound should come primarily from the pair.

Use one 103 for the brass and another for the saxes. Again, distance and leakage are your friends. Let the section blend in the air, and the guys can lean in for solos.
That leaves a 103 for the vocal and another for the guitar. These are all cardioid mics, so be aware of that when you think about where everyone will go.

The bass goes direct, although a small amp could give a nice low end in the room sound.

If you have good players, they should blend themselves in the room so the minimal micing will give the sense of a live performance in a space.
Don't be afraid to move the guys around a bit or ask for help with dynamics and blend from the players.
Good luck!!!

[da burf]

Please try the 'recorderman-setup' for drums,
I absolutely love it for jazz (actually for all styles ;-)).

[PRobb]

One more thing. Make sure all mics and cans are up, placed, wired, routed and CHECKED before the players arrive!! This is huge. The rehearsals and run throughs are time to be fine tuning mic placement and level (leave headroom), not figuring out why the sax mic isn't coming up where it should and why the singer's cans don't work.

[richsorr]

Originally posted by richsorr
I'm going to try to do everything live, if i cant, ill have to do the horns seperate from the rhythm section. now what about which mics and pres to use on what?

maybe 18x9? not exactly sure, not sure of how to lay out the band either. these are high school kids, which (besides space) is one reason im iffy about doing it all live, we only have a day. i really do not know how i will set the band up, or how exactly it will be recorded until the band comes in. so if anyonce can give me advice to which mics and pres to use on which individual instrument that would be great..also Probb i only have one 103, not three

[PRobb]

Oops, right. I thought the 4 went with the 103s, now I see it's the 57s. The singer gets the 103, use the 81s for horns.

Also, the fact that its high school kids complicates matters. You might want to overdub the horns.

[richsorr]

overdubbing horns was my initial thought..im doing this for a project i need for college so i asked my old high school jazz combo to help me out. they are good players, but i need the playing to be perfect, and i think i have a better chance of that doing the sections individually. i have never heard this singer, but overdubbing the vocals probably be easier to make sure they are flawless. if i did each section individual i was think this...Oktavas as overheads for drums going to the focusrite, 57 on guitar going to avalon, bass direct to the avalon. then either the 4 57s (high SPL) on each horn going to the focusrite, or my B2 and Neumann. then vocals with the 103 to the avalon

[7rojo7]

try it first with everyone, be ready to switch.
rehearse with everyone ,record with rhythm section and scratch vocals, punch the horns and vocals without it seeming like it had to go that way, buy everyone a beer go to sleep and fix it the next day when nobody's around.

[Han]

For jazz bands it's important to play how they are used to. I use the recorderman method for a couple of years now with great success.

Ribbon mics happen to be very rejective and they have a very nice of axis response. I use ribbons for horns, together with a neutral sounding tube LDC like the M149 or MXL V77S. This combination is almost ideal, you can blend the signals and get whatever sound you're after.

Bleed is no problem at all, use it, put your OH mics a little closer when the drummer is very soft.

The vocals are recorded in the room with a Beyer M88, no cans, just like a live gig on the wedge monitors.

The only problem can be an upright bass, you need a couple of gobo's or a booth.

Some pickups may be your friend here, Fishman or Underwood can work just fine.

[jajjguy]

Originally posted by richsorr
these are high school kids, which (besides space) is one reason im iffy about doing it all live, we only have a day.

in my experience, overdubbing to a headphone mix is a learned skill. if they've never done it before, don't expect it to be easier, quicker, or yield a better product than recording live.

the fact that you want "perfect" and "flawless" performances from high school kids, even good ones, worries me a bit.

[lukas]

two m49 - good room - thats it!

[hollywood_steve]

just a suggestion, in case you haven't thought of it already.........

pack up the PC and your preamps (no control 24 or any outboard necessary) and grab your mics and head over to the kid's school. I'm gonna bet that either the band rehearsal room or the school auditoreum are plenty big enough for a proper live recording.