?Using A/D D/A on live sound to better the mix...

primomusic · 8th February 2005

Hey guys quick question not on recording but live sound. I got the universal audio 2192, and a great river mp2-nv and I was thinking how would it sound if I had the main out of a mackie mixer go in the great river and out to the 2192 and then out to the speakers. All this with the sample rate using the ua clock set at 192 sample rate. Would the sound be like ........ GREAT or not, because I was wondering with the sound companys that get hired to do concerts for big acts such as Dave matthews , john mayer, or whatever , that they got to be using A/D D/A. Cause it sounds great.

David Herbert · 8th February 2005

Why don't you try it and let us know.
While yo are at it, why not stick a digital recording device between the AD-DA and cut a track or two?

primomusic · 8th February 2005

its never been done.

primomusic · 8th February 2005

come on fellas help me out here. Is this done all the time or nobody does it.

primomusic · 9th February 2005

I just want to know will using my ua 2192 with the great river mp2-nv in real time for a live gig sound very good. Does anybody ever do this. I was thinking the big sound companys use it.

418 · 9th February 2005

Well, there will be a VERY slight delay using the 2192... AD/DA takes a little time...

But anyway, I can see the reasoning behind the GR, but why the 2192? Unless you want the AD/DA'd sound, I'd think the original analog signal should be better...

David Herbert · 9th February 2005

Did you do it yet? How did it go? David

Telecastr · 9th February 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by primomusic
Hey guys quick question not on recording but live sound. I got the universal audio 2192, and a great river mp2-nv and I was thinking how would it sound if I had the main out of a mackie mixer go in the great river and out to the 2192 and then out to the speakers. All this with the sample rate using the ua clock set at 192 sample rate. Would the sound be like ........ GREAT or not, because I was wondering with the sound companys that get hired to do concerts for big acts such as Dave matthews , john mayer, or whatever , that they got to be using A/D D/A. Cause it sounds great.

guys who are mixing for dave matthews and john mayer, etc are using a good console first of all, not something like a mackie. it's not about using an A/D or D/a unless they are using a digital console. if you've ever worked on any of the industry standard live boards that the big guys use like a Midas Heritage 3000 or XL3, or a Yamaha 4k or PM1D, you'd know it's just that when you take good talent and good equipment, you get good sound. i do'nt know that i've ever been to a concert and thought "wow that's some aweseome A/D D/A." I think what's more likely is that it's just a fine tuned PA run by an engineer who KNOWS the music inside and out from running the same show every night of the tour. To me, that's what makes it sound great.
To answer your question about the Mackie being fed into the GR...i don't think it would really help much. you've still got noisy pres and inadequate EQs in the Mackie. Sure you might add some GR " color" but it will hardly be worth the effort IMO. the other thing, which is equally if not more important, are the speaker cabinets you will be using. As far as adding the conversion in to the setup...you're only going to degrade the sound. conversion of any type, no matter how good it is, does degrade the signal.

primomusic · 9th February 2005

ok how can it degrade the sound. If in the studio we use d/a to monitor the sound. Why would it not be useful to use it in a live event. It'll only make it clearer and more pristine. So im wondering how can it degrade the sound.

Blaise · 9th February 2005

Quote:

ok how can it degrade the sound. If in the studio we use d/a to monitor the sound. Why would it not be useful to use it in a live event. It'll only make it clearer and more pristine. So im wondering how can it degrade the sound.

Mostly because it isn't nessasary
You are going to want to keep your signal path a simple as possible and its only going to sound as good as your weakest link. Converters are not effects boxes. They won't eq, compress or magically make your stuff sound better. (Garbage in, Garbage out) Noisy analog into a digital converter and then back out is just going to result in noisy analog again plus any "color" the AD/DA might have. Your probably better of just using your mackie.

primomusic · 9th February 2005

does not make any sense to me. Like i said if we use a/d d/a and mic pres to better are recordings and monitor mixes through our d/a why is that we cant use the same thing to monitor a live gig. The mackie cant be worse than how u guys say it. I dont hear it being noisy. But forget it lets say I have a very expensive board.

Blaise · 9th February 2005

you don't use mic pres and converters to simply better a recording
you use DA to hear whats going on the best you can in the digital realm and you use mic pres to get the most from your mics
in your situation your not really using either for there intended purpose. If your just trying to sweeten your live mix why don't you look into some 2bus eq's or compressors or FX boxes?

Telecastr · 9th February 2005

The point of converters is to simply convert the audio into or from digital. Converters aren't judged by how they improve the audio, they are judged by how little of an impact they have on the audio. Converters are supposed to be transparent; all of the coloring is supposed to happen either earlier or later in the chain. There are some converters, like the HEDD, which can also act as enhancements to the audio, but these are pretty rare and they are hard to do right. If you just want to add warmth or distortion to the audio you'd be better served doing it in the analog domain. Thanks.

excellrec · 9th February 2005

We use a/d d/a when we're recording.. because we're going to record the audio.

De chromium cob · 9th February 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by primomusic
does not make any sense to me. But forget it lets say I have a very expensive board.

You have a very expensive board. Say a Yamaha PM4000. Its an analog board. No converters. You send that to a Klark Teknik DN-360 EQ and through a analog snake up to the stage. It goes into a crossover, lets say a BSS 318- and then into the power amps that drive the speaker stacks. See? NO CONVERSION.

tINY · 10th February 2005

The best A/D and D/A combo I ever used for live sound was the ins and outs on the BSS Omnidrive.

Then, again, it might have been the processing inside the unit...

-tINY

primomusic · 10th February 2005

De chromium , Great detail. Thanks alot for the response. Well after all that,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I guess I dont .................... NEEEEEEEEEEED IT! after all

Thanks fellas appreciate the input. I got the picture
Using great talent and great equipment is the only way to go.....

Adrian

Frost · 10th February 2005

I cant see using a AD in a live pa. However, I can see using a mackie with all the levels run really low and sending that to the GR. I dont think it will be worlds better and you would probably get more out of a better EQ, better mains, a better board, but if you have one sitting around... why not try it- the weakest parts of the mackie are its summing bus and its EQ's. At least you will take care of one of these.

Frost

8th February 2005	#1
primomusic Registered User Joined: Jun 2004 Location: chicago Posts: 95 Thread Starter	?Using A/D D/A on live sound to better the mix... Hey guys quick question not on recording but live sound. I got the universal audio 2192, and a great river mp2-nv and I was thinking how would it sound if I had the main out of a mackie mixer go in the great river and out to the 2192 and then out to the speakers. All this with the sample rate using the ua clock set at 192 sample rate. Would the sound be like ........ GREAT or not, because I was wondering with the sound companys that get hired to do concerts for big acts such as Dave matthews , john mayer, or whatever , that they got to be using A/D D/A. Cause it sounds great.

8th February 2005	#2
David Herbert Lives for gear Joined: Sep 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 556	Why don't you try it and let us know. While yo are at it, why not stick a digital recording device between the AD-DA and cut a track or two? __________________ My band: CRAvery.com

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Live Sound anyone?	Bassdias	Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording	3	15th May 2005 08:41 PM
Live Sound	kenandrews	Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording	1	28th November 2004 08:40 AM
live sound	killerstand	Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording	2	11th February 2004 10:53 AM
Live mix vs Recorded mix	RSMITH123	Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording	5	23rd December 2002 05:47 PM
how do you mix space in your live mix!	JayCrouch	Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording	2	3rd December 2002 05:01 AM

9th February 2005	#5
primomusic Registered User Joined: Jun 2004 Location: chicago Posts: 95 Thread Starter	I just want to know will using my ua 2192 with the great river mp2-nv in real time for a live gig sound very good. Does anybody ever do this. I was thinking the big sound companys use it.

9th February 2005	#6
418 Gear nut Joined: Sep 2004 Location: 92354 Posts: 131	Well, there will be a VERY slight delay using the 2192... AD/DA takes a little time... But anyway, I can see the reasoning behind the GR, but why the 2192? Unless you want the AD/DA'd sound, I'd think the original analog signal should be better...

9th February 2005	#12
Blaise Gear interested Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 9	you don't use mic pres and converters to simply better a recording you use DA to hear whats going on the best you can in the digital realm and you use mic pres to get the most from your mics in your situation your not really using either for there intended purpose. If your just trying to sweeten your live mix why don't you look into some 2bus eq's or compressors or FX boxes?

9th February 2005	#13
Telecastr Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2004 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 621	The point of converters is to simply convert the audio into or from digital. Converters aren't judged by how they improve the audio, they are judged by how little of an impact they have on the audio. Converters are supposed to be transparent; all of the coloring is supposed to happen either earlier or later in the chain. There are some converters, like the HEDD, which can also act as enhancements to the audio, but these are pretty rare and they are hard to do right. If you just want to add warmth or distortion to the audio you'd be better served doing it in the analog domain. Thanks.

9th February 2005	#14
excellrec Gear maniac Joined: Nov 2003 Location: minneapolis Posts: 236	We use a/d d/a when we're recording.. because we're going to record the audio.

10th February 2005	#16
tINY Gear Guru Joined: Jul 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 10,233	The best A/D and D/A combo I ever used for live sound was the ins and outs on the BSS Omnidrive. Then, again, it might have been the processing inside the unit... -tINY

10th February 2005	#18
Frost Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 711	I cant see using a AD in a live pa. However, I can see using a mackie with all the levels run really low and sending that to the GR. I dont think it will be worlds better and you would probably get more out of a better EQ, better mains, a better board, but if you have one sitting around... why not try it- the weakest parts of the mackie are its summing bus and its EQ's. At least you will take care of one of these. Frost