solo violin in stereo - mic placement?

[nas]

Hi

I usually record the solo vln. in mono but would like to try recording in stereo for a little more depth. I have an SDC matched pair - any suggestions on mic placement? or interesting techniques?

cheers,
nas

[boojum]

You can run the standard NOS, DIN, ORTF arrays or check out the Williams article on "Stereo Zoom" which describes a correct pattern for all types of mics for a given stereo stage. It is a good starting point as it will get you close to optimum.

http://www.rycote.com/assets/documen...onic%20Zoom.pd

[Don S]

I've tried ORTF for this purpose, but most violinsts move and ORTF too wide to the point where the instrument bounces R to L a little bit much for my ears. I like MS, Blumlein and X-Y. I would think a Royer SF12/24 would sound fantastic in a decent hall for this purpose!

[nas]

thanks for your feedback.

boojum, the link you posted didn't work but I did find the article through google - quite informative and very helpful thanks

Don,

when for example you do use x-y how are you generally placing the mics.? 2-3ft. directly above the soloist? slightly ahead or behind ? slightly modified form a mono mic placement?

nas

[i604]

I will place in front, on an higher location, let's say 30 degrees...

[David Rick]

Originally Posted by Don S

I've tried ORTF for this purpose, but most violinsts move and ORTF too wide to the point where the instrument bounces R to L a little bit much for my ears. I like MS, Blumlein and X-Y. I would think a Royer SF12/24 would sound fantastic in a decent hall for this purpose!

I'm with Don on this. I'm normally not too wild about coincident techniques, but for a featured soloist in the center, this is exactly what you want.

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording

[ISedlacek]

For years I mostly record violin/viola (myself) and keep chasing for the best possible sound ... For me, two Schoeps omnis (MK2) in AB position (about 40cm apart) in the level of one´s third eye (in between the eyebrows ) yield the best results (about 2-3 meters distance from the mics in 45 degrees angle with the right violin side turned towards the mics - in the studio room). In a big hall/church, the position can be slightly different.
Often it is recommended and seen to place microphones quite up above the violin - it does not sound very good to me comparing to the above mentioned position. A bit less full and more scratchy.

I never found ORTF sounding very good for recording a single instrument (with mics turned quite apart from the source). I clearly don´t like XY - very narrow, small ...

I had AEA R88 stereo ribbon here for one year, it sounded nice, but I always prefered Schoeps in the end - in every single case ...

Recording violin on one mic only brings very limited/congested results - sounds very flat, one dimensional, unnatural - if meant as a solo instrument

[Don S]

Originally Posted by nas

thanks for your feedback.
Don,

when for example you do use x-y how are you generally placing the mics.? 2-3ft. directly above the soloist? slightly ahead or behind ? slightly modified form a mono mic placement?

nas

It really depends on the instrument. Directly above may sound a little abrasive, so move the mics around the instrument until you find the sweet spot. But yes 2 to 3 feet but off to the side.

[fifthcircle]

Mic technique and placement should be directly related to the style of music being recorded. If I'm doing solo violin like a Bach Partita or similar solo music, I'll almost always use an ORTF pair (usually Schoeps or Sennheiser). Sometimes I'll use an AKG 426 and when I use that mic, I go blumlein or some variant of it.

If I'm recording a solo violinist as a concerto, I use a mono mic. Here, the function of the instrument goes from the entire sound stage to a point in the stereo image. Hence the different pickup. If I was recording a violin solo overdub for some jazz or pop album, once again, I'll usually use a mono mic as I find that it fits in the image better- especially if it needs to be panned. If I wanted a stereo pickup, I'd likely go with something like an M-S pair where the mono sum gets rid of the sides and you can control how wide you want the image to be.

For solo violin, the one pickup I avoid at all costs is an A-B pickup. The reason? Image bouncing. Most players do not play standing perfectly still. When a player moves, the image with an A-B pair will tend to drift from side to side. I use A-B for lots of stuff (solo piano, solo tuba, other stationary instruments), but not for any situation where a performer may move.

--Ben

[mrsteaks]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

For solo violin, the one pickup I avoid at all costs is an A-B pickup. The reason? Image bouncing. Most players do not play standing perfectly still. When a player moves, the image with an A-B pair will tend to drift from side to side. I use A-B for lots of stuff (solo piano, solo tuba, other stationary instruments), but not for any situation where a performer may move.

--Ben

I almost always agree with Ivo on mic technique, but in this case, I think Ben is absolutely correct. Why? I recorded a folk guitarist recently with an A B pair. Wonderful results, EXCEPT that he moved around, and the guitar image bounced around unrealistically. There's the key word - "unrealistically". A B can cause the image to "beam", not move smoothly.

[ISedlacek]

I have tried so many times (last time half an hour ago ). A solo violin player in a studio room with two microphones directed in completely different directions than he stands (ORTF) is the situation that to my ears does not bring very nice sound - a kind of thin, flat, non focused sound comparing to two microphones "looking" at the player (decent AB).

If there are two violinists or two or more musicians in general, ORTF would be great, but for a solo instrument I never got it sounding reasonable. If , then I would be more attracted to Blumlein.

If AB is used a kind of "generously" it creates a kind of "all pervading" solo violin which I like :)

Just came across a violin solo I played in one Hebrew song and the violin was recorded in AB (it was few years ago, no Forssell, DAD etc. yet :)))
It is just violin a guitar (with some small percussion in the background). The mics are either MK4V or MK21 (don´t remember), preamp Millennia, AD either Mytek or Lavry ...

VIOLIN SOLO from "Yefe Nof" - Hebrew Song

You can feel I was moving a bit, but I quite like that big "spacy" type of violin sound ...

[mrsteaks]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

You can feel I was moving a bit, but I quite like that big "spacy" type of violin sound ...

Indeed! I like it, too! Nice work (as usual), Ivo!

[nas]

thanks for that post Ivo - I actually like how the violin seems to float around a bit but not so much as to sound too extreme or ping-pong like. It will be interesting to try your AB suggestion but with cardioid mics to see how much of a difference that would make.

BTW I should mention that the violin will probably be overdubbed in a world fusion type style of music - think Peter Gabriel, Laureena McKennitt etc..


nas