Hearing loss after seeing one concert, 2 days later no better - any hope? - help!

[wesarvin]

Sounds like a scary situation. I almost always plug my ears when in anything remotely loud. Even a few feet from a quiet drummer (playing with rods). Granted, even with hi-fi OTC plugs, certain mid frequencies are attenuated and it makes your playing dynamics change, it's worth it for long-term protection. Good job on having the plugs in... you would probably be in an even worse situation if you didn't!

Guitar amps aren't that loud! They can be unpleasantly piercing, but not actually that loud SPL-wise. PA mains and subs on the other hand, or even percussive sources, are EXTREMELY loud and damaging. It may be a combination of the amp and the rest of the band too. Also, take into account the inverse-square law for sound. As you double the distance, the SPL reduces by the square root. Moving away an extra few feet can save your hearing!

Good luck on the testing and your ears!

[666666]

Originally Posted by blackfish

most ENTs only have test machines that go up to 8k. as do audiologists....

??? Yeah, when I told my doctor that I was missing frequencies above 8k he also looked at me like I was nuts. ???

I took a hearing test at my audiologist about a year ago and I seem to remember she tested above 8k... I have the test results around here someplace, need to find it... I was placed in a totally soundproofed room with good isolation-type headphones and she played assorted tones of varying frequency and amplitude... seemed to be a good legit test... I remember the test being somewhat challenging... some of the tones I could JUST barely hear... it was almost like I was "sensing" them more than I was "hearing" them... was kinda neat... but I apparently had passed that test with flying colors. I will likely go back to that audiologist too for further testing later on and for more musician ear plugs... she does testing and makes ear plugs but she is not a "doctor" which is why it is not appropriate for me to see her right now. Right now I need a "doctor". Well... she may technically be a "doctor", not sure, but she does not do medical treatment.

Though, considering my condition now, my guess is that any ENT will likely just tell me to rest my ears and re-assess after a week. I really don't know what anyone can do at this point.... especially because it is possible that I can currently hear as good as the average person... any ENT might think I'm crazy... my concern of course is the loss of the ultra precision and ultra sensitivity due to the loud concert... I want that back! As of last week I could hear a mosquito three rooms away... now I hear low-level ringing and feel like I've lost all fine sensitivity to sound.

Calling ENT now for whatever it's worth.

[wildpark]

+1

just chill your earwax is espacelly made too protect your hearing,

i had the same experience last week and after 8 days my pain is now away !

same situation

ear wax after earplugs

but really go too a doctor for cleaning

no do it yourself in that situation

Originally Posted by beebay007

This is probably different to your situation, but once I did sound for a really loud gig and I forgot to bring ear plugs. Then the next day my ears were ringing and hurting a lot, and I put ear plugs in just to try to give my ears a complete rest, even though I wasn't doing anything. Then my hearing stayed bad for a few days, and I thought something was wrong. I went to the doctor, and after looking in my ears, they discovered that there was heaps of ear wax in there and putting my ear plugs in must have squashed it all up against the ear drum. After syringing
my ears out, my hearing was fine.

[SidGuatama]

I have problems with earwax in general -- it's just genetic. I've actually had hearing problems that were caused by earplugs cramming wax into my ear. Home cleaning kits like Debrox work alright if the wax isn't too compacted. But about 3 times a year, I have to see an ENT to have my ears cleaned out. It's freakin' revolting! A few times, I was surprised I was able to hear at all after seeing all the crap that got flushed out.

[mdoelger]

Originally Posted by 666666

??? Yeah, when I told my doctor that I was missing frequencies above 8k he also looked at me like I was nuts. ???

I was told in a physics lesson that new borns can hear like 20k. They claimed that you loose 1Hz a day. I did my maths and that would be:

I was 26. That means 20k - 26*360 = 10510.

I told the professor he must be wrong. But he insisted it was true due to statistics. Strange I can still hear at least 17k if not above. Scientists are crazy.

What are those statistics based on? Deaf Metal listeners???

[Kyle S]

i need to see an ENT. i ran a vermeer 4150 for like 2 years when i was 17 and i got a friend that plays as loud as his amp will go every time dispite what everyone says about it being too loud. i really want to get an SPL meter and take it into thier practice room (20x14x9 bare sheetrock room with carpet, a bass combo, obscenely loud drummer, tube halfstack cranked.

i guarantee they get to +150db. i walked through there before and my ears were ****ed for the day. they were in there for hours though with no protection, its ****ing crazy.

[mdoelger]

Originally Posted by Kyle S

i need to see an ENT. i ran a vermeer 4150 for like 2 years when i was 17 and i got a friend that plays as loud as his amp will go every time dispite what everyone says about it being too loud. i really want to get an SPL meter and take it into thier practice room (20x14x9 bare sheetrock room with carpet, a bass combo, obscenely loud drummer, tube halfstack cranked.

i guarantee they get to +150db. i walked through there before and my ears were ****ed for the day. they were in there for hours though with no protection, its ****ing crazy.

Nice guys!

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by lunale

I was told in a physics lesson that new borns can hear like 20k. They claimed that you loose 1Hz a day. I did my maths and that would be:
I was 26. That means 20k - 26*360 = 10510.
I told the professor he must be wrong. But he insisted it was true due to statistics. Strange I can still hear at least 17k if not above. Scientists are crazy.
What are those statistics based on? Deaf Metal listeners???

Your "professor" is full of crap. Did he provide the source for his "statistcal analysis" or just brow beat you into assuming he was correct due to his "position"? According to his formula, I can't hear above 5k!

Many college professors are full of crap, they either push an agenda or make stuff up knowing the kids won't dare challange them in fear of reduced grades.

Some act like little dictators. I recommend you give them a boatfull, but after they have issued their grades to avoid retaliation.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[mdoelger]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Your "professor" is full of crap. Did he provide the source for his "statistcal analysis" or just brow beat you into assuming he was correct due to his "position"? According to his formula, I can't hear above 5k!

Many college professors are full of crap, they either push an agenda or make stuff up knowing the kids won't dare challange them in fear of reduced grades.

Some act like little dictators. I recommend you give them a boatfull, but after they have issued their grades to avoid retaliation.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

Thats what I meant. I mean obviously that statistic (if there was any) is not true. Grown ups ar NOT deaf in general.

That was years ago and I didn't care. I knew better.

[xopeth4]

Originally Posted by 666666

Thanks for all the replies. Been trying all morning here to find a good ENT doctor on my insurance plan that will see me right away... no luck yet... lot of docs on vacation now or are booked up for weeks in advance, etc, not good...

My left ear is still not good... still ringing, can't hear at all above maybe 8k or so.

Though it didn't make sense to me that I could have encountreed an instant severe wax build-up in one hour, I did still suspect that wax may have been an issue... I have had wax issues before... I picked up a new wax removal kit yesterday and tried it several times, no deal... no evidence of wax in the ear at all.... seems clean.

Vlado, you mention that there is something that could be done to help but it has to happen within a week... can you be more specific please. At this rate it looks like I will not be able to see an ENT until possibly over a week from now. Though if it was truly urgent that I see an ENT right now, I can of course make a greater effort to find one that will see me now even if I have to drive 70 miles or whatever. But I don't want to go nuts if it's not truly necessary... because the ENT might simply tell me, "go home and rest your ear, have a nice day". So please explain what exactly you are referring to... what is it that can be done within a week that can help?

Thanks.

A good place to go to is the "New York Eye And Ear Infirmary" on 14th and 1st in NYC (for people from NY) - This happened to me, but i was playing loud guitar, was right next to a hard hitting drummer and right in front of a vocal PA.. I thought I popped an eardrum. It is an "emergency room" style place, so you have to get there way early in the morning, but they will see you that day. Great people, and they gave me emergency hearing tests and all the trimmings the same day.

My result was that they couldn't do anything but drain wax, (though i had the battery of tests) but they put my mind at ease... and a few weeks later i gradually noticed my hearing cam back almost fully. Not completely, but enough to ease my mind that it heals.

And i will never play another gig without earplugs.

[Dr Funk]

9 weeks ago, I had a sudden hearing loss in my left ear. I had been complaining about my ears feeling clogged and 'full' (pressure-wise) for a few days. I thought I had a head cold. Then a few days later, I was in my studio, wearing headphones and playing a synth for 20 minutes or so, and when I took them off, I had really bad tinnitus, and had nothing left in my midrange! It felt like my left ear was underwater. All I could hear was low frequency rumble and high frequency sizzle.

I visited the local hospital immediately and was sent to the nearest hospital with an ENT department, where I was admitted for a week. My first hearing test showed a 55db loss between 500Hz and around 3k, with the lowest point around 1k. I was given a high dose of steroids and carbogen gas, which is 95% oxygen and 5% CO2 - it apparently provides lots of oxygen, while the small CO2 content fools the body into thinking it's being deprived of oxygen, and causes further oxygenation. Within a couple of days, some midrange started reappearing - but it was distorted and pitch shifted by anything from a semitone to a full tone in the affected range. My friends and family sounded like they were on helium, and music was so unbearable that words cannot really describe it. Imagine hearing a C in your right ear, and a C# in the left. Now imagine how that sounds when it's put together! The hearing test after a week showed that the affected range had come back up to -40db. I went home with a prescription to gradually bring me down off the steroids over the course of a week.

Unfortunately, that was the extent of the recovery until I had an outpatient appointment with my consultant 2 weeks later. He was about to send me home for another month until I explained to him that my career as an engineer and musician was over unless he could come up with something else, so he performed a minor surgical procedure which involved placing a grommet and wick in my ear, to deliver steroid drops directly to the inner ear. He said that there was absolutely no guarantee that the procedure would help, which was why he didn't suggest it until I told him what I worked at. We both agreed that in my situation, it was all to gain and nothing to lose.

Lo and behold, 2 weeks later (on my birthday) I finally decided to listen to some music, and it was back in tune! I can't begin to describe the happiness I felt.... The hearing test on my most recent visit (2 weeks ago) had improved by another 15db, and he told me to stop administering the steroid drops.

Since then, I've been able to do a small amount of work on some unfinished projects, but my ear is incredibly sensitive to level, and I can only work for short periods at very low level, otherwise my ear gets tired and is useless for the rest of the day, and I then have to sleep it off. My next visit is August 11th, so I suppose I'll find out where it goes from there.

The reason I've been so long-winded with this post is that I've read other accounts of hearing loss and recovery in this thread, but seeing as this is still happening to me, and the details are fresh in my mind, I thought a blow by blow account might be useful for others to read.

The moral of the story? VISIT AN ENT!

Cheers

Frank

[666666]

Update:

Visited local ENT doctor yesterday, exactly one week after the exposure to the loud noise.

This place seemed pretty high-tech, they had a full hearing test facility there, the sound-proofed booth and all the fancy tools, etc.

They gave me an ear drum pressure test... my ear drums tested perfect they said.

I then took a hearing test... both spoken word and test tones from 250Hz to 8kHz, played at various amplitudes. They said I was on the upper end of the acceptable normal range, and both ears were extremely close in performance to each other.

In sum, they said I tested just fine, and that whatever was bothering me was outside their ability to test. They noted that I was likely extremely sensitive to my own hearing performance, and whatever subtle issues were bothering me would likely "get better" over time. They said there was nothing else they would do.

My hearing IS way better now than it was say 4 days after the incident. A big improvement was made when the first doctor removed the small bit of wax from the left ear a few days after the incident. So that's at least one lesson learned... do not assume your ear canal is clear of wax just because you tried to flush it on your own with a store bought kit... the doctor can do it better and can actually SEE what's in there... you cannot.

But now, still, I have noticeable ringing in both ears. I am starting to wonder if I ALWAYS had this level of ringing but was just not as AWARE of it. I do feel that the ringing now is a bit greater than it was before, but... the whole experience has just made me focus more heavily on such issues.

I do hope the ringing subsides a bit with time because it's starting to bug me now. It does not bother me if I am not thinking about it, but when I make an effort to really "hear" something, it makes itself known and bugs me. At say a medium volume of music coming out of a studio monitor, the ringing is low enough to not be an issue. But I've always taken pride in my abilities to really hear very fine detail on very low amplitude sources... and now I'm concened that this ability may have been compromised a bit due to the incident. Hopefully the ENT is correct and whatever issues are bothering me right now will subside a bit over time.

I did see King's X last night... probably did not help with the ear ringing situation ... but at least I made sure to have my 25db filters in! My ears felt fine with the 25db filters... no discomfort.

I do wish they made a more powerful filter though, sometimes even 25db seems to not be enough for long term exposure to loud sound. Supposedly you can fill the filters with epoxy for greater attenuation, but the response will no longer be flat. I may start carrying my Peltor rifle-range earphones as silly as they may look.... those things really attenuate everything... they're great... not flat, but they keep you safe.

[eligit]

when i am recording a loud guitar amp i use 2 tools.

1)etymotic in ear monitors. great noise reduction and very clear sound at low volume.
2)shooters ear muffs OVER the etymotic earphones.

put these two together and your can working with SUPER LOUD amps and still protect your hearing.

in a quiet room someone can be talking to you a couple feet away and you will not hear them (or just barely hear a murmur)....the protection is that substantial.

that is all.

[666666]

Originally Posted by eligit

when i am recording a loud guitar amp i use 2 tools.
1)etymotic in ear monitors. great noise reduction and very clear sound at low volume.
2)shooters ear muffs OVER the etymotic earphones.
put these two together and your can working with SUPER LOUD amps and still protect your hearing.
in a quiet room someone can be talking to you a couple feet away and you will not hear them (or just barely hear a murmur)....the protection is that substantial.
that is all.

That's great advise.

For tracking drums, years ago I had built my own isolation headphones... took a pair of the heavy-duty Peltor rifle-range type headphones and installed Sony 7506 drivers into them. Made two sets like this and I never go to a recording session without them. I later found out that there are companies that actually make a sell pre-made headphones like this. These totally do the trick for drum tracking, but the one downside, they can get a bit uncomfortable after a while... tend to sweat a lot under the phones. When I am done track a song, I pull the headphones off and water damn near pours out of the ear cups.

I've heard that some guys use the etymoic plugs with filters and then just wear regular phones (that breathe) over that and blast the phones. I suppose this would be ok but there's one big issue... when blasting an open-ear headphone, you're likely to have the headphone noise bleed into the mics... no good.

Your idea of using etymoic in-ear monitors with heavy-duty phones around them sounds like a great overall solution. Using the etymoic in-ear monitors I'd think you could get away with an outer attenuation headphone that is not so heavy-duty... one that would perhaps breathe a bit for better comfort. Something to look into.

[eligit]

^^

also consider that those shooter's muffs are cheap and you can even cut a little bit of the foam out of the middle to accommodate the etymotics where they poke out of your ear.

the other plus of the etys is that they are unbelievably clear sounding.....way clearer than your average open ear phones.

either way...you get very high clarity that will be useful for placing mics....and massive amounts of noise reduction....which serves the dual purpose of protecting your ears from both high headphone volume AND high room volume.

it is like building a control room around your head.

very portable as well. you can take it to live shows where you are running sound/recording or just use it in the studio.

the only downside is that the etymotics are so clear and transparent (not hyped, just very transparent) and also a bit bass light, depending on what you consider accurate bass, that after a couple hours with the etymotics when if you shift back to your regular monitors the monitors will sound dull by comparison. so you have to take a couple minutes to acclimate.

the other little issue is that the etymotics have those cables which can get noisy if you bump them or rub them against something...the sound travels to your ear. once you get used to it tho....they are an invaluable tool....also great for listening to music on the subway.

[Cantankerous]

I am glad I came across this thread. I did a search for 'tinnitus' and this thread is what appeared. I too have been experiencing tinnitus for the past two months, mine however was not due to loud volumes. I believe mine was caused from a prescription of Accutane that I was on for close to 3 months before I stopped taking it due to the ringing. This was over 2 months ago and the ringing is still present, especially in the left ear. Accutane is a VERY potent acne medication that I took due to severe shoulder acne that has not gone away since my teen years. I am now 28 years of age. Nothing else would work so the Accutane was a last resort. A VERY rare side effect is Tinnitus and hearing loss. Sure enough I am the one to experience this 'rare' side effect. Just my luck.

My left ear has felt very plugged, hollow and shallow when compared to my right. It is also quieter than my right. Though it has improved greatly over the past month, it is far from perfect. The ringing is unfortunately still there and I feel it is slightly getting louder. I have hope however. I too bought one of those ghetto ear flushing kits from my local drug store with the blue synringe. Not much, if anything came out from using it so I assumed my ears were clean. I have made an appointment today to see my family doctor this coming Friday morning to see if he can see/remove anything that I could not. I have had my ears flushed once before about 10 years ago when I suffered horrible ringing again, in my left ear if I remember correctly, and tons of wax came out then. I remember walking out of the doctors office feeling I could hear a pin drop from a mile away. Huge difference.

The Problem with me is that my 'problem' is not due from loud volumes, but instead a reactioni to a prescription. I may not be so lucky to have my hearing 100% improved. The past couple of months I have slept just about every night with ear plugs to give my ears a rest. Unfortunately that means I can hear the ringing all the much more. It makes me very anxious when I wake up and notice it is still present. I guess I have hopes I will wake up and it will be gone. I hope things go well, only time will tell. I have never had my ears tested before so I will ask for a referral to an ENT specialist just to get a test done and see where I stand. I am no longer using my ipod as I feel it won't help the situation.

[zilver]

Originally Posted by Cantankerous

The past couple of months I have slept just about every night with ear plugs to give my ears a rest. Unfortunately that means I can hear the ringing all the much more. It makes me very anxious when I wake up and notice it is still present. I guess I have hopes I will wake up and it will be gone. I hope things go well, only time will tell.

As you have noted yourself ear plugs at night can be very counter productive. The small ringing you have then gets exaggerated because the "internal amplifier" of your hearing system is cranked up.

Tinnitus distress (in my experience) is related to anxiety/stress/constantly monitoring how bad it is etc...
You might have a look at Tinnitus Retraining Therapy (TRT). The definitive site for .
This site has helped me a lot.
Good luck,
Hans

[coper2671]

hi there,

i was once told that if you do unfortunately go to a gig and it does end up being louder than expected the best thing to do is when you get home, put the TV or radio on very quietly and sit and concentrate on it for about half an hour or so, it should help you ears readjust to the quieter levels and hopefully hinder that annoying ringing in your ears. hope that can help for the future. cheers!

[newyorker42]

Originally Posted by coper2671

hi there,

i was once told that if you do unfortunately go to a gig and it does end up being louder than expected the best thing to do is when you get home, put the TV or radio on very quietly and sit and concentrate on it for about half an hour or so, it should help you ears readjust to the quieter levels and hopefully hinder that annoying ringing in your ears. hope that can help for the future. cheers!

Unfortunately, that won't help...

Adult Health Advisor 2005.4: Noise and Hearing Loss

"Sounds entering your ear pass through your eardrum and into the inner ear. Tiny hairs in the inner ear change the sound waves into nerve impulses. Hearing nerves carry these impulses to the brain, where they are interpreted as sound. Different sounds move the hairs in different ways. This allows the brain to distinguish one sound from another, such as vowels from consonants.
You are born with about 30,000 hair cells in the inner ear and that's all you get--once destroyed, they are not replaced. The hairs in the inner ear are very sensitive and fragile. They can be destroyed in 2 ways.
A very loud and sudden noise can immediately destroy the delicate tissue mechanically, like a hurricane knocks down trees.
More often, the hairs are hurt by stress from chronic noise. Overstimulation by ongoing noise creates chemicals that damage the hairs."