Review an organ recording?

[NorseHorse]

I'm doing some organ sessions at the Presbyterian Church here in town. Gorgeous sanctuary and a fresh organ from the folks at Buzard.

John-Paul Buzard Pipe Organ Builders: Opus 32, Williamsburg Presbyterian Church, Williamsburg, Virginia

I've been running some tests to figure out what is going to work best for an upcoming project. Feedback is appreciated. I'll withhold my thoughts (and gear used) until I hear from others.

UPDATE: SEE SEVERAL POSTS DOWN A REVISED SAMPLE WITH A BETTER STEREO IMAGE

[RickZ]

Listening on headphones, the stereo image seems pretty narrow.
FWIW,
Rick Z

[NorseHorse]

Thanks, Rick. You're one of the folks I was hoping to hear from.

[joelpatterson]

Sounds great to me.... kind of a short, aggressive song, tho.

[hughesmr]

I concur with Rick ... kinda narrow image. A pr of spaced room mics smoothly blended in to add some uncorrelated width to the sound would be a great benefit.

I record a newer Noack organ in northern KY in a similar space quite frequently (see pic). A somewhat low ceiling creates a bit of a problem in terms of sound constriction, to my taste. This recording has a touch of that same problem ... hard to battle that architecture, though.

[NorseHorse]

When I was running the tests with umpteen mics (eventually I'll post the shootout), I was doing it all in mono. I'd forgotten to pay much attention to the stereo picture for the previous upload. With that in mind, I've made a quick revision before going to bed.

How does this sound tonaly?
Does it have clarity?
How's the room for you?
Does it feel old school or new school? (Not really sure what I'm asking with this one, but I'm asking anyway...)

[sonare]

Originally Posted by NorseHorse

When I was running the tests with umpteen mics (eventually I'll post the shootout), I was doing it all in mono. I'd forgotten to pay much attention to the stereo picture for the previous upload. With that in mind, I've made a quick revision before going to bed.

How does this sound tonaly?

Sounds a bit like a concident cardioid pair-- a NICE cardioid pair but so far back that you are losing overtones

Does it have clarity?

No-- too much first reflections

How's the room for you?

Not great,not bad

Does it feel old school or new school? (Not really sure what I'm asking with this one, but I'm asking anyway...)

I do not have ANY idea what this question means!

I am missing detail and a sense of space with the sound. And something along the lines of a Bach prelude would be more useful for judging mics/locations IMHO.

After many trials and comparisons I have found the DPA4003 omnis to consistently be the top choice for organ, or at the very least somebodies omnis.

Rich

[NorseHorse]

I've attached a picture of the sanctuary. I recorded M/S with the mid as a cardioid. The mic stand was place at the top of the steps right about where the metal plate on the floor is. I've found that by moving the mic to where the big white box is gives a slightly more upfront sound, but I also get more hiss from the organ.

[sonare]

The M/S could work nicely for hall mics back around pew 5 or so (down about 5dB relative to the mains) but for organ you MUST use omnis to get the 32ft pedal stuff they paid big $$ to have.

Based on what I have heard I would start with the omnis spaced 1 meter and up 15-18 feet right about where the chancel steps begin.

Wind noise is unavoidable and is actually part of the sound of pipe organ. The organ nuts will object if it is missing, and in fact will sound like an electronic if it is missing entirely. With a new instrument I am sure it is minimal.

If John Buzard is present he will be invaluable to you in finding the right spot, other wise seek the organist's input. The customer is always right, especially when recording something that you are not overly familiar with.

Oh yes-- don't fade to black in between cuts. It simply isn't done and will sound like amateur hour. You can fade down as the reverb fades maybe 3dB though. Keep in mind that you are likely the only person involved who will notice the wind noise and be really bothered by it.

You do know that they could expect you to be able to edit phrases and possibly individual notes, yes? Hope you have a good crossfade editor-- organ editing is not easy!!

Rich

[d_fu]

Little bit of a "me, too" posting here, but I'd agree that it sounds a bit narrow and not very clear. Also, as Rich said, (true pressure transducer) omnis are a must for organ - can't be without.

Daniel

[NorseHorse]

Thanks guys. I'm the client in this case (finally... someone I can cope with!). I would generally record with spaced omnis for organ, but monocapatibility is very important for what I need (sorry, I can't go into the details yet), and I'm skeptical that spaced omnis would be acceptable. (Still have more tests to do...) Sonare, maybe a combo would work?

PS. I can fade cause I'm the boss! And because it was just a short sample for everyone to listen to. Cheers!

[sonare]

I do not know why you are concerned with "mono compatibility"-- at worst mono with spaced omnis will cancel some LF and you don't HAVE any LF with your M/S.

Organ BEGS for open, smooth, big room sound, and you must do whatever you must do to get it.

I suggested a combo in my first reply.

Rich

[NorseHorse]

Thanks! Back to tracking...

The microphone is a Schoeps CMTS 501U. I also recorded the sample with the MID switched to omni (which according to Schoeps "is a true pressure transducer"). I'll post that for you soon. The bass response was better, but I wasn't as pleased with the overall picture.