neumann km 184 vs km 140

[fafalio]

why km 140 is double expensive than km 184?
where are the big differences in performance?

[John Willett]

It's because the KM 140 is part of the KM 100 series with interchangeable heads.

There is more mechanical work to do in the manufacture of the KM 100 series and, also, less are sold - all this goes into making the price higher.

And it's not twice the price - it's only about 45% more expensive.

The street price may be different, though, as you are more likely to get the 184 discounted.

The price difference seems reasonable to me - after all, the whole purpose of the 184 was to make the quality of the 140 available at a cheaper price by making it easier and cheaper to manufacture.

[fifthcircle]

Too bad they don't sound the same... Ditched my 184 mics for a pair of 140s a couple years back. I'm much happier with the 140 than I was with the 184. They are definitely worth the extra cash.


--Ben

[Adebar]

Can you explain that better? What is different for you, the highs the mids or other characteristics?

I thought it is the same capsule and even the same electronics and the only difference was the less expensive housig of the 184 without the expensive mechanical elements for modularity.

[David Spearritt]

This has been discussed extensively on the Neumann pinboard. You need to get the facts.

All Aspects of Neumann Products - Re: KM100 v. KM180 series
All Aspects of Neumann Products - Re: KM 84 vs. KM 184 capsules...

[David Rick]

I don't think Ben is coming out of left field on this. I've heard from a couple of other experienced engineers that KM-140's sound a bit different than KM-184's. If memory serves, the reports were that the mid-bass sounded different. I think I read an interview in which someone from Neumann attributed this to the modular construction affecting the body resonance.

I don't have any personal experience on which to base a comparison. I've only used the KM-184, and it wasn't my cup of tea.

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording

[fifthcircle]

That is part of it, the other thing is the top end. I find that the 140 just seems a bit smoother than a 184. My experiences with the 184 was that very often the top end had an "etched" quality to it.

Now... The biggest issue for me is power requirements from your preamps. I've found over the years that the 184 is a very picky mic when it comes to the phantom supply required. When it isn't quite up to par, it oscillates. Not a pretty sound at all! Sometimes, it can be caused by something as simple as cable loss on a long run. Making the run shorter would fix the problem.

Also, while I don't have absolute evidence of this, I find that the KM140 is also much easier to deal with when it comes to cellular interference. My 184s were always taking cellular hits. I haven't had this happen even once with the 140s that I own.

--Ben

[David Spearritt]

Neumann have a mod to circuit boards now that eliminates the cell phone interferance. Some of ours have been "done".

[angelo]

Somewhere in the forum of the Neumann-website an Neumann engineer explains that the difference in sound is due the difference in the electronics.
The electronics in the KM140 are older then the KM184. The KM184 has been designed later and the electronics in the KM140 where never "updated".
Just check the specifications of both mics. You will notice that the signal to noise levels and maximum SPL levels between both mics are different.

[JEGG]

There have been changes in the electronics of both the 180 and 100 series. They do not sound the same. Look around on this board for some files, d_fu (I think) used both the 184 and 140 in a harpsichord mic test. Also, Neumann took a long time to change the mic data/specifications-long after the changes were made. So you would need to be somewhat discriminating in judging a specific mic.

The 184 is constructed slightly differently. Do some searches. I believe the phase disc is different: conical vs something else.

The removable "capsule" on the 184 isn't really, the mic was designed that way for testing (so I was told long ago).

Sorry to be vague, but those are the areas in which I would look.

[Remoteness]

Maybe that's what the deal is...

I do not hear the same sound that many have been describing about the KM140.

I've used mine for at least ten years with great results.

I love my KM140s and would never consider getting rid of them.

[Remoteness]

Hey, I have six old KM140s I'm trying to get rid of...

Anyone interested?

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.Nah, just kidding.

[huub]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

That is part of it, the other thing is the top end. I find that the 140 just seems a bit smoother than a 184. My experiences with the 184 was that very often the top end had an "etched" quality to it.

Now... The biggest issue for me is power requirements from your preamps. I've found over the years that the 184 is a very picky mic when it comes to the phantom supply required. When it isn't quite up to par, it oscillates. Not a pretty sound at all! Sometimes, it can be caused by something as simple as cable loss on a long run. Making the run shorter would fix the problem.

Also, while I don't have absolute evidence of this, I find that the KM140 is also much easier to deal with when it comes to cellular interference. My 184s were always taking cellular hits. I haven't had this happen even once with the 140s that I own.

--Ben

Km140s do the same though.. try connecting one to a behringer preamp and 100mtr of cable :)

[David Spearritt]

An excellent thread I missed before.
All Aspects of Neumann Products - KM 130 compared with KM 83

[Beauarts]

I've had a pair of 140s for a number of years. I used to have two KM 84s but one had some problems and they were not useable as a pair. When I got the 140s, I did a comparison and thought they were in the ballpark quality-wise with the 84. Not exactly the same but a good classy sound, useful for many of the same things.

I tried out a pair of 184s about 2 years ago and when I compared them to the 140s, they had all the problems everyone complains about, the harsh high end etc. I also didn't think they were the same quality as the 140.

People don't know the 140 or think they're almost the same as the 184 so usually they sell used for close to the same price. Somewhere around $1000 - $1200 a pair. I can't think what else you can get comparable without spending 50% more. (Though I'm sure someone on this board will tell me - most likely even if that someone has never heard the km140)