Shotgun opinions - MKH60, MKH416, KMR82i - narrowing down

[666666]

After a good deal of general research, I've narrowed down my potential shotgun choice to either the MKH416, MKH60 or KMR82i.

My goals... mainly spot micing musical instruments from a distance... also some occasional location video voice capture. Looking for optimum musical and natural response, extremely low noise, etc.

It appears that the 416 and 82i have a noticeable presence range bump... the 60 by comparison appears to be flatter (according to the freq response charts). Being that I'm looking for the most natural and musical response (for instruments), wondering if the 60 might be best for me. Thoughts? Or perhaps the freq bumps on the others are very flattering regardless?

Any comments regarding the polar response of these mics? According to the charts, they appear very similar to each other in general. I've read some comments that the KMR82i is tighter than the 416... looking for more comparison info like this. In general, I'm leaning a bit more toward the "tight" side in terms of polar pattern. I already have some good tight hypercardioids, looking for something different here. Looking for a polar pattern that is tight down to as low a freq as possible. Seems that most are tight down to about 2k-ish, then become a typical hyper pattern below that.

I do not want to depend too much on response charts to make a decision here, I'm counting on the slutz to help out with some good nitty-gritty info and details.

Yeah, I know I need to hear `em first with my own ears... surely sound advise... well, at least help me narrow the choices down from three to two, then perhaps I can audition those two.

I will likely be using the mic indoors and in generally good conditions most of the time, so the mic's ability to resist severe weather conditions etc is not of high importance to me. Most of the work I'll be doing will be either in a theater or video studio etc.

Much appreciated!

[John Willett]

I know them all - but I would have said the KMR 81i is closer in polar-pattern to the MKH 416 and MKH 60 - the 82i is more of a long gun and more comparable to the MKH 70.

I far prefer the 60 over the 416 - it has lower noise, lower distortion and a better controlled polar-pattern. Most people who really love the 416 have never really tried the 60 - live with the 60 for a while and the 416 sounds noisy and low output in comparison.

The 60 is basically the same as the 20/30/40/50 except for polar-pattern, they all sound pretty much the same. The 60 is basically a 50 with an interference tube.

The 60 is a symmetrical capsule mic. and the distortion is extremely low, so it does tend to be more revealing.

Both the 416 and 60 are RF condensers and are excellent in the wet - but the 416 is a little better in the wet because it does not have the symmetrical front plate. The symmetrical capsule is technically much better, but the payback is a slightly reduced safety in the wet.

The Neumann 81i and 82i seemed to be popular with people who did not like the sound of the 416 - but they are AF condensers and not safe in the wet like the MKH series. They sound good, though.

Of the three, personally, I would go for the 60 - if you have any MKH 20/30/40 series it will sound the same and sit in the mix better.

If you are not worried about the safety in the wet, the 60 would still be my first choice, but the 81i would be my second choice ahead of the 416.

I hope this helps.

[666666]

Thanks John, excellent review!

Very helpful. Much appreciated.

[3rd&4thT]

John,

If you're still there, and as long as we're here...

I'm anticipating tracking some spoken word on a short-barrel shotgun indoors that will be intercut with some closely-recorded U47/67-style LDC narration.

Obviously a match is not to be expected, but which shotgun will intercut the most smoothly?

Thanks,
3rd&4thT

[John Willett]

I can't really answer this one - but my gut reaction is the MKH 60 or the KMR 81i.

I have never had to do this myself, unfortunately.

The 60 will be the cleaner sound, though.

[tsvisser]

Are you sure you need a shotgun? Often times I hear of people describing the "reach" of a gun, but I feel this term does not accurately describe the function of a gun. In most cases, there is simply no way you can get around the fact that the mic must be placed relatively close to the source to get nice hot levels. The interference tube rejects off axis noise, but at a price. It also drastically changes the tone of off axis sources, due to the changes in performance with respect to frequency. There are no shotguns that are highly directional at very low frequencies. At medium and long ranges, a shotgun and a good hypercardioid effectively have the same polar patterns, the difference being that the hypercardioid will not only attenuate off axis, but also keep a more true tonal balance.

For spot mic'ing, there is no substitute for proximity, really. Whatever constraints that caused you to look at guns in the first place could perhaps be overcome using alter aternative methods? Boundary layer mics, suspended spots, wireless transmitters and receivers...

[3rd&4thT]

Originally Posted by tsvisser

At medium and long ranges, a shotgun and a good hypercardioid effectively have the same polar patterns, the difference being that the hypercardioid will not only attenuate off axis, but also keep a more true tonal balance.

OK, have you any hypercardioids in mind that might be suitable? I'm open. I'm just trying to keep the intercutting from being any more jarring than it has to be.

3rd&4thT

[tsvisser]

The hypercard that I just bought for myself is the Sennheiser MKH8050, but won't have an opportunity to run it through it's paces until late August when I return from my trip. My initial observations, noise is almost non-existant and the pattern is super tight.

[3rd&4thT]

Thnx,

3rd&4thT