Best Dynamic Vocal Mic for Live Music TV Series

DanDan · 14th July 2008, 04:01 PM

I do a live music TV series. Archived online at RTÉ Television - Other Voices
I, am very happy with the vocal sound I get from a Beta 57 with Canford Popshield. However, some musicians and monitor engineers reckon that couple of centimetres of foam is ruining their day. Unfortuntately the 57 is unusable for vocals without the popper. The 58 is a fine mic, but I really don't like the windrush and pops. I have tested many alternatives, Beta 87, AKG535, Neumann, Audix. In this little church, A-B tests always favour the B57+PS, always. I notice what looks like a Sennheiser on a lot of TV shows at the moment. They sound good and look discreet, and I don't hear air noises. My lighting guy would love to see the popshield go. Anyone know which model it is? Personal experiences, observations. ?
Best Regards, DanDan FitzGerald
SoundSound - Homepage

**Remoteness** · 15th July 2008, 12:49 AM

It appears that the link you provided is dead.

mohthom · 15th July 2008, 01:18 AM

Mostly the ones used on the TV talent shows (at least the ones I catch for 4/5 seconds before turning off) are using Senneiser ew500 series, which can come with either the same capsule as the e835 or the e845 (as well as others). The 835 is card, the 845 is hypercard. I prefer the 845, and HAVE used both. For my money, kicks the crap out of a 58.

MohThoM

huub · 15th July 2008, 10:04 AM

I really like the audix dynamic mics..
The touring PA guys will propably compain anyway, if they have to use something that is not their choice, even if it's better..

DanDan · 15th July 2008, 03:15 PM

Hi, thanks for the comments. It is not possible to try or A-B these in a little City at the edge of Europe! The show I do is pretty real, not one of those talent things. Take a look. The link is fixed now. Interference are worth watching. I prefer to avoid wireless mics so the simple dynamic is my preference. I note that Sennheiser have a 900 range now. They suggest that the 900 range is an improvement over the 800's. Have any of compared them? I note that the SuperCardioid 845 is preferred below. Interesting. Is it a better sound, or better rejection of monitors, cymbals, and other stage spill? Are these Senn's good at handling pops?
Best Regards, DD

rmx16 · 15th July 2008, 03:16 PM

Check out the Heil PR 35. I heard them at a Stevie Wonder gig I did. Nice and thick in the low-mids and smooth on the top end,

http://www.heilsound.com/pro/products/pr35/index.htm

Peace

**Remoteness** · 15th July 2008, 03:20 PM

Call me old fashion, but I still like the sound of an original MD431.

DanDan · 15th July 2008, 04:11 PM

That Heil product sounds very good on paper. It also seems to look quite like the Sennheiser. My visual associates would love either of these mics compared to my current foam cushion! I watched Joan Armatrading on Live at Abbey Road the other night. Again these Sennheiser or possibly Heil mics. Sounded excellent.
Are Heil mics manufactured anywhere healthy?
I had assumed the 431 was long gone. Nice mic indeed but now expensive and visually it has a bit too much character for my visual friends.
Anyway thanks again, food for thought and further research.
Best, DD

bishopthomas · 15th July 2008, 05:49 PM

I like Audix OM5's and 7's. I used to be a huge fan of the 835 but switched to the OM series. Now listening to an 835 or 935 sounds harsh in the 2-3k range. The Audix are all black and so are the Sennheiser 900 series (for your visual needs).

**Remoteness** · 15th July 2008, 10:27 PM

I also saw that Joan Armatrading video and I thought she was singing into a Shure KSM9, but I could be mistaken.

In any event, I've seen other artists on that show using the KSM9 condenser mics on vocals.

Jim vanBergen · 15th July 2008, 10:56 PM

The KSM9 is very popular right now, but for dynamic, I'd suggest you look closely at:

Beyer M88
Telefunken M80 (Studio set with black grill)

I also would not use an additional foam windscreen if you can get away with it. If you have plosives on a dynamic with the built-in foam screen, then you're too close.

Hope this helps!

JvB

**Remoteness** · 16th July 2008, 07:25 AM

Yeah, I have worked with M88s for vocals back when Phil Collins and others used them a lot.
They are excellent vocal mics for sure.
Every now and then they come out for lead vocal duties.
I tend to use them for bass drum almost every time we record or do live sound.

Rob Anderson and I just finished a vocal group overdub session tracking layers of voices over the original live (gospel) recording we did in Brooklyn a few weeks back.
During the live recording session we had the main choir (SOP/TEN/ALTO) and about eight (group) vocal ringers to help thicken the vocal blend.

In our mobile recording studio (ELROY) we matched the group vocal mics and pres and used speaker playback instead of individual headphones to capture the vibe of the original live recording.

It worked out wonderfully...

The mics we used for the group vocals were Sennheiser MD431s

The vocals sounded phat.

astronmr20 · 16th July 2008, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmx16

Check out the Heil PR 35. I heard them at a Stevie Wonder gig I did. Nice and thick in the low-mids and smooth on the top end,

Heil Sound - Recording Live Sound Broadcast - PR-35

Peace

+10.

DanDan · 19th July 2008, 11:23 PM

Quite a few great suggestions there. It made me realise how out of touch I am. Interesting that the Sennheiser, Heil, and Shure look very similar.
The 88 is a great old mic but the massive bottom end and pops... When people diss me about my popshields I refer to The Last Waltz (88 plus PS)
The 431 has too much visual character I am afraid. Very well engineered mic though, great pops and handling protection, great off axis eveness.
Aside- I have a couple of 441's!
I am very happy with my sonic result at the moment. My desire to change is mostly cosmetic with some curiousity as to what's new and good. Strangely my current choice is not intended to be a vocal mic, but with a high quality popshield it seems to trump all comers.

Much thanks for your thoughts.

Dan Fitzgerald
SoundSound - Homepage

huub · 19th July 2008, 11:27 PM

On a side note: anyone experience with a sm7 as stage mic?
I love that mic, and saw a jon bon jovi live-for-tv show once with an sm7..
Ah, found it:

(Yeah, I know .. that band does suck)

**Remoteness** · 20th July 2008, 12:58 AM

I've used that mic for scratch vocals and voice over work with great results.

I've used it for an in studio live performance with monitors and such.
Everything went well with regard to zero feedback.

Dean7 · 20th July 2008, 01:45 AM

Have you checked out a Heil PR30? Amazing mic for vocals IMO.

-Dean

JoeyM · 20th July 2008, 02:36 AM

I had to say something after seeing you mention the beta 87. I did a few mixer gigs with a University girl choir band and the Beta 87 was so wrong, just crappy sounding. I went home and got my beta 58 and it sounded fantastic and real high gain before feedback. All the gigs were indoors so I don't know about wind effects on the b58. Fortunetly other than my b58 the Uni had a suitcase full of beta Shures, but again one vote against b87 and + for b58.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
vocal mic choice - dynamic or condenser	jaz49	Low End Theory	34	10th June 2008 04:26 PM
Recording Hybrid: Live Music-no vocals (Karaoke-like) / Studio Vocal	Myth Healer	Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording	1	1st April 2008 03:03 AM
Dynamic vocal mic : Better than sm57, cheaper than sm7b?	enroper	Low End Theory	16	10th December 2007 08:58 AM
Dynamic mic for live performance? (low-middy male voice)	switch1	Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording	14	19th November 2007 10:03 PM
Best, cheap, tight pattern, DYNAMIC mic for scratch vocal tracks?	halcyo	Low End Theory	18	9th July 2007 10:26 PM

14th July 2008, 04:01 PM	#1
DanDan Gear maniac Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Cork Ireland Posts: 229	Best Dynamic Vocal Mic for Live Music TV Series I do a live music TV series. Archived online at RTÉ Television - Other Voices I, am very happy with the vocal sound I get from a Beta 57 with Canford Popshield. However, some musicians and monitor engineers reckon that couple of centimetres of foam is ruining their day. Unfortuntately the 57 is unusable for vocals without the popper. The 58 is a fine mic, but I really don't like the windrush and pops. I have tested many alternatives, Beta 87, AKG535, Neumann, Audix. In this little church, A-B tests always favour the B57+PS, always. I notice what looks like a Sennheiser on a lot of TV shows at the moment. They sound good and look discreet, and I don't hear air noises. My lighting guy would love to see the popshield go. Anyone know which model it is? Personal experiences, observations. ? Best Regards, DanDan FitzGerald SoundSound - Homepage Last edited by DanDan; 19th July 2008 at 11:12 PM.. Reason: Amy seems to be absent.

15th July 2008, 12:49 AM	#2
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 4,880	It appears that the link you provided is dead. __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network Remoteness on Myspace

15th July 2008, 01:18 AM	#3
mohthom Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 515	Mostly the ones used on the TV talent shows (at least the ones I catch for 4/5 seconds before turning off) are using Senneiser ew500 series, which can come with either the same capsule as the e835 or the e845 (as well as others). The 835 is card, the 845 is hypercard. I prefer the 845, and HAVE used both. For my money, kicks the crap out of a 58. MohThoM __________________

15th July 2008, 03:15 PM	#5
DanDan Gear maniac Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Cork Ireland Posts: 229	Sennheisers Hi, thanks for the comments. It is not possible to try or A-B these in a little City at the edge of Europe! The show I do is pretty real, not one of those talent things. Take a look. The link is fixed now. Interference are worth watching. I prefer to avoid wireless mics so the simple dynamic is my preference. I note that Sennheiser have a 900 range now. They suggest that the 900 range is an improvement over the 800's. Have any of compared them? I note that the SuperCardioid 845 is preferred below. Interesting. Is it a better sound, or better rejection of monitors, cymbals, and other stage spill? Are these Senn's good at handling pops? Best Regards, DD Last edited by DanDan; 19th July 2008 at 11:12 PM.. Reason: Amy has left the building.

15th July 2008, 10:04 AM	#4
huub Gear addict Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: amsterdam Posts: 427	I really like the audix dynamic mics.. The touring PA guys will propably compain anyway, if they have to use something that is not their choice, even if it's better..

15th July 2008, 03:16 PM	#6
rmx16 Gear addict Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Philly Posts: 406	Check out the Heil PR 35. I heard them at a Stevie Wonder gig I did. Nice and thick in the low-mids and smooth on the top end, http://www.heilsound.com/pro/products/pr35/index.htm Peace

15th July 2008, 03:20 PM	#7
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 4,880	Call me old fashion, but I still like the sound of an original MD431. __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network Remoteness on Myspace

15th July 2008, 04:11 PM	#8
DanDan Gear maniac Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Cork Ireland Posts: 229	Very Interesting That Heil product sounds very good on paper. It also seems to look quite like the Sennheiser. My visual associates would love either of these mics compared to my current foam cushion! I watched Joan Armatrading on Live at Abbey Road the other night. Again these Sennheiser or possibly Heil mics. Sounded excellent. Are Heil mics manufactured anywhere healthy? I had assumed the 431 was long gone. Nice mic indeed but now expensive and visually it has a bit too much character for my visual friends. Anyway thanks again, food for thought and further research. Best, DD

15th July 2008, 05:49 PM	#9
bishopthomas Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Central New Jersey Posts: 599	I like Audix OM5's and 7's. I used to be a huge fan of the 835 but switched to the OM series. Now listening to an 835 or 935 sounds harsh in the 2-3k range. The Audix are all black and so are the Sennheiser 900 series (for your visual needs).

15th July 2008, 10:27 PM	#10
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 4,880	I also saw that Joan Armatrading video and I thought she was singing into a Shure KSM9, but I could be mistaken. In any event, I've seen other artists on that show using the KSM9 condenser mics on vocals. __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network Remoteness on Myspace

15th July 2008, 10:56 PM	#11
Jim vanBergen Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New York Friggin' City Posts: 2,286	The KSM9 is very popular right now, but for dynamic, I'd suggest you look closely at: Beyer M88 Telefunken M80 (Studio set with black grill) I also would not use an additional foam windscreen if you can get away with it. If you have plosives on a dynamic with the built-in foam screen, then you're too close. Hope this helps! JvB

16th July 2008, 07:25 AM	#12
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 4,880	Yeah, I have worked with M88s for vocals back when Phil Collins and others used them a lot. They are excellent vocal mics for sure. Every now and then they come out for lead vocal duties. I tend to use them for bass drum almost every time we record or do live sound. Rob Anderson and I just finished a vocal group overdub session tracking layers of voices over the original live (gospel) recording we did in Brooklyn a few weeks back. During the live recording session we had the main choir (SOP/TEN/ALTO) and about eight (group) vocal ringers to help thicken the vocal blend. In our mobile recording studio (ELROY) we matched the group vocal mics and pres and used speaker playback instead of individual headphones to capture the vibe of the original live recording. It worked out wonderfully... The mics we used for the group vocals were Sennheiser MD431s The vocals sounded phat. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network Remoteness on Myspace

19th July 2008, 11:23 PM	#14
DanDan Gear maniac Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Cork Ireland Posts: 229	Food for thought and experiment. Quite a few great suggestions there. It made me realise how out of touch I am. Interesting that the Sennheiser, Heil, and Shure look very similar. The 88 is a great old mic but the massive bottom end and pops... When people diss me about my popshields I refer to The Last Waltz (88 plus PS) The 431 has too much visual character I am afraid. Very well engineered mic though, great pops and handling protection, great off axis eveness. Aside- I have a couple of 441's! I am very happy with my sonic result at the moment. My desire to change is mostly cosmetic with some curiousity as to what's new and good. Strangely my current choice is not intended to be a vocal mic, but with a high quality popshield it seems to trump all comers. Much thanks for your thoughts. Dan Fitzgerald SoundSound - Homepage

19th July 2008, 11:27 PM	#15
huub Gear addict Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: amsterdam Posts: 427	On a side note: anyone experience with a sm7 as stage mic? I love that mic, and saw a jon bon jovi live-for-tv show once with an sm7.. Ah, found it: (Yeah, I know .. that band does suck)

20th July 2008, 12:58 AM	#16
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 4,880	I've used that mic for scratch vocals and voice over work with great results. I've used it for an in studio live performance with monitors and such. Everything went well with regard to zero feedback. __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network Remoteness on Myspace

20th July 2008, 01:45 AM	#17
Dean7 Gear addict Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 310	Have you checked out a Heil PR30? Amazing mic for vocals IMO. -Dean

20th July 2008, 02:36 AM	#18
JoeyM Gear nut Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Audioland Posts: 111	I had to say something after seeing you mention the beta 87. I did a few mixer gigs with a University girl choir band and the Beta 87 was so wrong, just crappy sounding. I went home and got my beta 58 and it sounded fantastic and real high gain before feedback. All the gigs were indoors so I don't know about wind effects on the b58. Fortunetly other than my b58 the Uni had a suitcase full of beta Shures, but again one vote against b87 and + for b58.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread: