Favorite Acoustic Guitar

[Ruphus]

Thanks a bunch guys for your valuable hints. Without this kind of input I would be hard pressed to gather all these experiences on myself.
So, I will be researching on the Classical Guitar Dynamic Duo (SBT/UST) pickup from them, which I suppose is exactly what I need. Also like the idea of it being passive.

I wish you a great Merry Christmas!

:O)

Ruphus

PS: David Lindley seems to like their stuff too.

[shikawkee]

Good deal buddy, enjoy!

Keep in mind, as with all mics and the PUTW is essentially a mic, placement is everything. I had to move it around a bit to find the sweet spot.

Happy holidays everyone!

[chap]

Hey Ruphus,
One quick correction. The Shertler system
IS a microphone. No cheesy pickups.
Plus they're made in Germany.
Merry Christmas,
chap

[shikawkee]

Originally posted by chap
Hey Ruphus,
One quick correction. The Shertler system
IS a microphone. No cheesy pickups.
Plus they're made in Germany.
Merry Christmas,
chap

Yeah, the Schertler system I tried had an under saddle element and a mic blend which would be sent to a blender/pre. Sounded real good.

[N.J.]

Personally, I like Rizsanyi the best for acoustic.
Handmade, great sound and look.
http://www.rizsanyiguitars.com/inside.html

[chap]

the 'under saddle element' is a cleverly designed
condenser mic. You can get an external mic pre
or an internal one with a lithium battery that lasts 5 years. Beats the 9 volt thing.
ho ho ho,
chap

[Teddy Gee]

Gut players, how does this appear to you, have you heard of it?
http://www.mangore.com/contrera.html#topg


Ruphus,

I have not heard of Mr. Belluccis' guitars, but his work looks good, and his comments on his website are good no-nonsense stuff. Also, his price is extremely easonable,................. but perhaps too much so. I don't believe I have EVER seen an instrument with solid Brazilian Rosewood back and sides for under $3,000.........to say nothing of under $1500! Not knowing these guitars, I am reluctant to make any inferences there, but I can't imagine where he would be getting this wood, and be able to sell so cheaply. The wood is rare, and expensive!! Regardless of how "cost-effective" the rest of his production chain is, something there just ain't right (?).

That being said, I would never consider buying a guitar like this through the mal anyway. Definitely would have to play it, hear it played, etc.......as extensively as possible. There are many small luthiers in Germany (some among the world's best!) doing superlative work with nylon string guitars that you could check out as a point of comparison, and have a chance to actually play their guitars. I'd recommend it as an enjoyable endeavor.

Stephen

[Ruphus]

You know what, Stephen,

I´m corresponding with him and am subtly torn apart.
These should be guitars that cost upwards from 6000 bucks or so in the industrial countries I suppose.

Not only are the offers incredibly fair, but he comes quite out of his way for me. ( He says that he can see from my writing that I´m for real.
In a way I think one can indeed figure out in certain cases, by what and how people write. - I have actually met folks through the net whom I trusted and have been rewarded by reliability. Pieter, e.g. who is a GS member too since a couple of months for instance received a big amount from me quite a while ago to shop and he completely honestly did. We are good friends since roughly 3 years now. I trust him a whole lot and more than some of the real-life fellas.)

So far it has been me who said to Mr. Belluci, no, let´s wait until I have gathered more cash, otherwise the guitar was offered to be on its way already.

I have been thinking though, just for any case.
If this is really Renato Belluci then I´d say there to exist a rather small chance that he would just be picking peoples pocket. He ought to be student of the meastros like "Sila Godoy, Narciso Yepes, Andres Segovia, Jose Tomás, Ernesto Bitetti, Alirio Diaz, David Russell and Eliot Fisk", he has records out and is wittnessed as being a "bad-ass player" and has an online classical guitar school.
He should have an international reputation to lose.

And if he was a scammer would he try to get your money as quick as possible or as much as possible?
I mean when he offered me sending the guitar for a relatively small prepayment that would have been all he could had gotten. Say, after a while when no postman with a big box were ringing I would have known that it must be a scam and send no more cash.
So, I think if he was a hypothetical scammer he should had asked for the entire price, instead of offering earlier delivery, no?

And then to make best use of such a scam trick he should better take in as much and fast as possible, first because people might come after him ( I e.g. might ) and secondly, because victims could be posting about that trick in the internet and decrease the flow.

The only remote negative assumption that comes to my mind would be the eventuality of Mr. Belluci not being alive anymore and someone misusing his name.
However, for that this scam model should hurry, it wouldn´t stay undiscovered for long as well.

This domain however is registered since years ...

Registrant:
BELLUCCI, RENATO


First Registered:
July 20, 1998

And there is his online school under that domain of which you can find people in guitar forums who seem to attend and praise it as the best for classical playing studies.

But what you cannot find is a single complaining remark anywhere. ( Only a couple of posts in some forums, saying they had bought these guitars and were floored.)

And also he offers me a cedar top, the wood that he defends on his website against the common judge according to which spruce was better.
So, if he just wants to make me drool why offer cedar? Why the hazzle, instead of just offering spruce or whatever might be commonly considered as being better. ( And he has spruce in his program too.)

If he is true and yet that is how it appears the most to me then he is a very fine person.

Any more thoughts?

Thanks a bunch for your company!

GS is the sh!t anyway. Gotta love this crowd ( except maybe for their meagre-feedback syndrom on the mp3 forum. -The common midget desease even on GS.)

Best,

Ruphus

PS: If anybody is having good intensions to find out, just don´t do anything that could hurt his reputation like suspicious requests anywhere. It would be a mess if a nice and approaching person was rewarded with spoil on his honourable name.

But if any had constructive ideas, please let me know!

[Teddy Gee]

Ruphus,

All very fairly stated, and I really don't mean to suggest anything like a scam where my questions about the Brazilian Rosewood are concerned. Maybe the rest of the luthiers who build with exotic woods are unfairly raising the prices, but I don't think so.

As an example, I have a guitar built by a father/son luthier team in Oregon named Robert and Orville Milburn. I have gotten to know Robert very well as all their guitars are essentially custom made for an individual, or the 2-3 they deliver each year to Guitars International who is the only dealer of their instruments. My guitar is made of African Blackwood with a German Spruce top, and the cost of the Blackwood option in constructing the guitar is an additional $1300. Their charge for Brazilian Rosewood is $1200, and that is simply for the choice of the wood. The completed guitars cost anywhere from $3500-$6500. Robert is a friend, a really great person, and I can state absolutely that these guys are not getting rich overcharging for the components of their guitars.

Any way, having finished ranting, I have read some more of Mr. Belluccis' writings etc. on his site, and I can understand your feelings. Really does seem to be a very decent, committed to what he is doing guy, and if his guitars are top-class, he is offering them at great prices. Personally, I still could not buy an instrument like this without having a chance to play it,......choose from among what he has to offer, etc........but that is just me. I did not custom order the Milburn, but found it used in a local guitar shop, fell in love with it, and got to know the luthiers because I have had a lot of restoration work done on it.

I'll be interested to hear how this develops, and even more importantly..............how you like the guitar if you buy one!!

Merry Christmas!

Stephen

[JTR]

Ruphus & Teddy G

regarding your unknown builder -

the international luthier world is a small community; I'm sure a post to a suitable specialty forum will elicite the answer you are seeking...


felize navidade, boyzzz

[Ruphus]

Your input is very wellcome, and yep, Merry Christmas! ( I´ll be sleeping at the table when the turkey is served tomorrow )

Everybody has his prejustices, one of mine is that German guitar builders were no good. Most that I have seen was clumsy or pseudo-individually looking; most that I had in hand has been dull.

But I know that can´t be the whole truth.
Just like with that bass I bought not long ago ... through ebay.
Handbuild from a German luthier. The maple so hard that I just couldn´t believe it when screwing in for the ribbon. ( How I hate to drill instruments - though I love woodworking otherwise. Why can´t these guys not put that damn knob on by themselves already?) Plays wondefully, is adjusted ideally and sounds terrific ... for 250€.
The only thing is that the frets are not precisely finished at the edges. Gotta doe that soon.
Can you say that I´m satisfied with that deal? Oh yeah, I´ve been a lucky bastard.
I owe to that man.

Until months ago purchasing a guitar over ebay appeared unthinkable to me. And it still is a weird thought. I have experienced well how significant differences even among same serials are.
Thus I checked the ticket prices for possibly flying over to Paraguay, but they havn´t lowered the prices for that route.

Next week the Almansa guitar shall be dragged in, also orderd by ebay now. It´s a bit like roulette and crazy, but it was half the price in good condition with flightcase thrown in. Should it be a lucky case again I would be thrilled.
Not to speak of the Mangoré. If that was what I hope it to be it would kill me. I´m not even worth such good sounding stuff, its just my sonic adaption that had me thinking of thelike quality since over 20 years and drooling like a dog before sausage.

When anything crosses the boarder to industrial nations, and even before, its price jumps up to several times.

I have furniture of one of the nicest woods, bought from a wholestore for 1/5 the amount of the cubic meters local price. And the furnitures consist of about 2 m3 of wood.

No, many of our luthiers might not get rich, but before them there always sits a trader chain, each toping on the stuff considerably. And on top of that comes crazy labour price to back up exploding costs of living.
Maybe that´s why I heard from a guy who assits a violin luthier that his master drove down to Italy to cut down and bring with him a whole tree that he had bought there before.

Guess he did that, because it cost him a fraction. The tree now is stored for many years in the workshop before the final slice.

Yes, should I buy this guitar ( and I might unless any doubtful thing popped up ) I will definitly let you guys know what came out. It could be worth it in any way.

Ruphus

PS: JTR, do you have a certain forum in mind? What I have seen as guitar forums seemed rather like beginner´s to me, except of maybe one which I don´t recall of where to find.

[Teddy Gee]

Merry Christmas,

Ruphus, try as a good source of links to many forums, luthiers, and players the Guitar Foundation America:

www.guitarfoundation.org.

They are international in scope, though the name says"America" and they offer a wealth of info. I am sure you can learn more about Senor Bellucci as well as luthiers near you in Europe. To name just a few very highly thought of German luthiers: Roland Scharbatke, Sascha Nowak, Gernot Wagner (though in Wagners case his guitars are in excess of $10,000 now!). All these are going to be expensive of course by comparison to the Mangore (the name pulls at my musical heart-strings a bit as Augustin Barrios is one my favorite composers for the guitar........if you have never heard John Williams play Barrios, you owe it to yourself as a guitar lover to get a copy of "From the Jungles of Paraguay, John Williams plays Barrios".....................I digress.

Also, one of the links I gave you in an earlier post was for Guitars International, and the owner, Armin Kelley is a good guy who would probably be happy to help with info if he can. You can try him at info@guitarsint.com.

Happy hunting,

Stephen

[songman]

Stephen, the address you gave had this as reply: No web site is configured at this address.

Cheers, Bob.

PS !! Best wishes for 2005 to everyone at this great forum, and a special cheers to Jules for making it happen!!

[Ruphus]

Hey Stephen,

Muchos gracias for the support. I logged into 2 or 3 guitar forums and placed a neutral request and also just wrote an e-mail to Armin.
Would be great if some info came up by this!

Yeah, Scharbatke ... definitly interesting, but he is in the upper price range also. The one guitar I posted of him costs a fortune. But thanks for all the names, man, I´m going to look into the other guys offerings too.

Also great to hear of worthy records! Havn´t bought anything from John Williams since the eighties and shall definitly check "From the Jungles of Paraguay, John Williams plays Barrios", for the one as it should be great when you rave about it and as a bonus, because I havn´t - at least consciously - heard of Barrios yet.
John Williams it seems introduced Barrioas to the public, Mr. belluci very interestingly tells on his website about how Andres Segovia ought to be the reason for why Barrios stood unrevealed. Segovia, the man whom we all adore so much, the man after whom the guitar schools build their standards and luthiers too broad necks, as an ordinary human whose jelousy undermined Barrios as a reportedly genius in composing and superior player. And as I just learned Emilio Pujol might had more of a career also if he hadn´t been standing in Segovia´s shadow.

Funny how often vanguards statues show cracks decades later.
Jaque Cousteau the big "scientist and pioneer of discovering sealife" got caught many years later in being a charlatan, cruel to animals, faking environmental observations and circumstances and guilty of defamation ( he build the skark up as the men eating monster, "Jaws" only followed the cliché as icing on the dogma.)

Or before that, later internationally reputated Nobel Price carriers wizards surpressing and cheating a female colleague and aproppreating her works as they couldn´t stand the fact and "defeat" under a superior woman and wanted it all for themselves.

Or the famous passionate analyzer and therapist of aggresion Konrad Lorenz who in fact misled common believe on the topic and subtly was just supporting his own theories that he had put up during his works for the ****s.

Heck, not that Segovia must be near to above perfidiousity ( even less as I don´t know about these things ), but images can be accompanied by unexpected backstage and sometimes are.

In a way I wellcome thelike exposures, because they and anything similar demonstrates to us that we must stay ready for whatever reality might be.

And for guitar it has been found in recent times that players actually mustn´t all sit like Segovia, hold the hands like him, rasp fingernails like he did and play a guitar like his.
But that we can under whatever circumstances recognize that he has been a bad-ass player and not too little.

... I digress.



Heck, I´m two and a half galaxies away of guys like those players above, ( with my little ping pong bong - actually I play only nursery rhymes with the thumbs or so ), but have one of the best phrenic microphones on earth that result in wireless biodynamic waves that shall entitle for one of the guitars those fellas wouldn´t have necessarily dismissed.

Hey, I think that turkey today must had been grown in a weed field. It looks like my waterglass is floating over the table and writing "W .. O.. O D A N D S T R I N G S A B O V E A L L T H I N G S".

Ruphus

PS: Sascha Nowak seems the only of the three whose product I could afford. But those seem too lowly regarded to show any picks ofem.

P: I´ve been more into the side and it might be less holy than I might have naively be celebrating, but it mustn´t be less of a fair opportunity either.

[chap]

Hey Ruphus,
It's an odd coincidince but I just mastered a CD for a local classical guitarist who loves Barrios and
echos the theory that Barrios was held back by Segovia (who was supposedly a mean bastard).

I think we're in for a Barrios revival in the next couple of years. History, once again, proves to be a fallible concept and not an indesputable timeline of events.

good luck on the hunt,
chap

[Ruphus]

Thanks, Chap!
I need it. I want THE BABY for my specific financial range. A bargain. A purchase I couldn´t repeat any time soon.
Lots of cash for lots and lots of delight. A hit so good that you could say in a convinced manner that it would be sufficient to stay with that very instrument for the rest of the candles burning time.
I want to play my chit on a lovely piece of craftsmanship and if it was just for to hear the instrument. ... If you know what I mean.

Ruphus

PS: If it was not with those Mangoré models then I might put it on hold.

[chap]

Well, you've got me curious and I have about 70 guitars. (I'm counting mandolons, lap steels, mandocellos and every animal that sports strings,
but mostly guitars. I have about 15 or 20 from endorsement deals and some are gifts and some,
I've paid dearly for. I use everyone of them (even my high school Silvertone) and, thankfully, have a
great string endorsement (Thomastek Infeld) to keep the growing family fed. I try to avoid gluttony but your Mangore story has me intrigued.
I have 2 nylon stringed guitars. One is a 28 year old Takamine (my only Takamine) with spruce top and Brazillian Rosewood back and sides.
I've had it worked on and it plays and sounds spectacular. I only mention it because I pait $350
for it, brand new, and it sound as good or better than many of my friends fancy boutique nylon string guitars. I think you can do it.

That said, there is a place in the world for austere, beautifully handcrafted guitars like my Goodalls.
Maybe they offer you a money back guarentee?
The only hitch is that they are on a different continent. Of course, that continent is where they grow Brazillian Rosewood.
I'll be watching and wishing you good luck on your quest.
peace,
chap

[Ruphus]

Thanks, Chap!

You know why I am considering a flamenco guitar since 1980 or so? Cause a really nice woman lend me out hers while I had a stay at my sisters place. She had bought it in Spain as a souvenire. So I´d think that she hadn´t spend much more than maybe 250 bucks value on it.

Although being such a dear soul who else wouldn´t hesitate long she was not willing to sell that dang to me.

If you gave me that very one I´d have what I want already.
However, that purchase has been in a certain time. I´d estimate that such an offer wouldn´t be happening too often anymore. For the one maybe, because there are much more people on the way, appreciating and recognizing good guitars and on the other hand I guess the manufacturer would already realize the exceptional unit and take it out of the lot for a possible other route and / or price / feedback.

There are still big differences out there among serial models and with luck one can be at the right time and place and have quite some bargain, but the Callas amongst the Britneys might be happening not as much than back then when it was without relative even mashine production, batch sellings, huge competition, market concentration and throngs snooping the show rooms.

Your Takamine today would possibly rather be found for a fortune.

Just speculating.

Ruphus

[Teddy Gee]

......songman,
I don't quite understand the failure of that link, as I use the website frequently (am logged into it now) and can gaurantee that it does exist ??

http://www.guitarfoundation.org/

Very interesting artist was Pio Augustin Barrios Mangore........"Mangore" is both a Peruvian tribe, and a mythical/mystical prophet and leader of the tribe in ancient times. Barrios assumed this identity (and added the name) at a point in his career when he had found some fame, at least in his own country...................started to appear in concert dressed in traditional ceremonial garb of the tribe (i.e. skins and feathered headgear, etc.......) You may imagine that this did nothing to endear him to the more "stuffed shirt" sort of classical guitar fan in Europe or the U.S............and certainly not to that most stuffed of shirts, Andre Segovia. It is not really known for certain whether Segovia deliberately suppressed the work of Barrios, but he certainly did nothing to promote it, despite the fact that he was continually looking for music from "fresh, and modern" composers. He did meet Barrios on a tour of South America (don't remember the year, but it would have to have been the late 1920's). Did not really approve of Barrios steel-stringed instrument, but did listen to Barrios play some of his compositions (Barrios, BTW was an AMAZING player..............I have some very old, and very bad recordings of him, and he was ).........anyway, this meeting is noted in the histories/biographies of both men, but Segovia did not enrich the world at that time with Barrios compositions.

The classical guitar owes a trmendous debt to Segovia, but he was a serious "rock-star" and that says it all.You might say he didn't like Barrios because he was Peruvian, not Spanish, but more likely because he did not come to Europe to live and perform like Villalobos (a Brazilian) who was one of Segovias' favorite composers. John Williams did indeed "discover" and bring Barrios music to the public. Williams was Segovias' most prized, and gushed over student (1960's early I think)................and Williams hated it, and really wanted nothing to do with "The Master". Segovia thought his own interpretation of a score was the "right, and only" way, etc.....and reigned in terror (and to his credit as a doting father also if he thought you were good and deserving) over any student fortunate enough to receive his attention.

Well, sorry for all that perhaps useless drivel, but thought you might find it entertaining. The limited checking I have done on the credentials of Mr. Bellucci come back positive! Seems OK, and like Chap this has got me starting to want one of his guitars also.

Gear-lust has no master, and knows no boundaries.

Stephen

[chap]

Barrios apparently, made a good living. He had his ethnic side with the costumes and a real pride in his origin. He also perfomed 'legit'.
I don't think Segovia's displeasure was motivated
by racism but more like, classism and the resistance to change.
I have a good friend who confirms Segovia's temperment (this guy studioed with him).
Segovia also hated the idea of the electric guitar.

He certainly was passionate.
chap

[songman]

Stephen,

Problem with the site must have been a local and temporary thing. Tried it again today and worked just fine.

Bob.

[Teddy Gee]

Bob - glad it worked, it is a great site for classical/flamenco guitar

Chap - I don't think it was racist either, your comment is dead on: elitist/classist whatever. Segovia was very haughty (I have a friend in LA who studied with him in the 60's)................

he expressed his opinions freely, and insisted on being agreed with. Absolutely hated any form of guitar other than classical. One of his great goals was to bring the guitar out of it's obscurity as an "accompaniment" instrument only.

Stephen

[Ruphus]

Originally posted by Teddy Gee
One of his great goals was to bring the guitar out of it's obscurity as an "accompaniment" instrument only.

Stephen

Yep, that has been a funny status when the guitar was regarded as an accompaniment instrument only.
I have never understood how that was possible at all. This instrument is equal to the beauty and complexity of the piano. How can one mainly think of it as sort of a triangle or whatever in the arrangement if he has ever adequatedly listened to a sole guitar. ( There comes into my mind however that possibly a vast part of guitars in the old times might have not been comparable to the brilliant instruments we widely know today. Hypothetically a why ..)

Hey guys, I´m looking at picture of classical guitars that sparkle exceptionally with their gloss, however I have an old thought according to which thicker varnish would dull the sound.
Dunno though, maybe this impression mustn´t be right or that it was depending on the sort of lacquer or whatever.
Got a crutch for me on this?
-

Mr. Belluci replied to my question about building in in the PUTW that his luthier wouldn´t be wanting to do that, because

We have only been able to test and get experience with the Artec model...I really would not want to experiment with any other... it takes some tinkering to get each model in the appropiate spot under the bone... It took me ages to get this olt timer to go with the idea of the preamp....

He says

-My best experience with the quality of sound and total wire freedom has been accomplished using Shure wireless lapel microphones (these are designed for tv anchors... but they are FANTASTIC guitar sound reproducers)... Using the T4V receiver (2 antennas receiver), you can be as far as 100 meters from the nearest wire... and you do not get that false third string sound that all guitar pickups deliver but a real guitar sound... these systems are more expensive but they are worth EVERY BUCK...I still use this system whenever I perform amplified and nothing comes close to it... http://music1online.com/tpd.html I can also buy this one if you prefer (you should)

.

With wireless I always imagine limited bandwidth and then RF in the studio ... and prolly delay ... Guess he didn´t consider in that moment that I want to use it for studio work.
One can´t be wanting that near the rack, huh?

But my comments are meant as questions anyway, I would rather like to know what you fellas think.

Ruphus

[Teddy Gee]

Ruphus,

Have to admit that I don't personally think onboard electronics of any kind do anything to enhance a nylon string guitar................but I know there are some good systems out there. Just can't recommend anything from experience.

In the studio, I think you would really get much better results with standard (or imaginative) mics.........nice clean preamp, etc.....

Just my opinion.

Stephen

[Ruphus]

Oh, sure that!
It will always be miked, but the additional pickup can´t hurt for blends or maybe even for crossing over if there was a too loud sqeek or something.

Recently, I was tracking acoustic bass and funnily all the takes made with full blown setup were crap performance wise while a spontaneous setup next day with only the pickup appeared good enough to take it for the mix.
And while I know that it would have been better with the mic in it, it really sounds great already. With a great pre on the other end you get quite some out of that thingy.

Thanks!

Ruphus

[Markd102]

The Cole Clark Fat Lady II

Bloody amazing!!

[neve1073]

Slightly ot--

Biography of Barrios:
"Six Silver Moonbeams" by Richard Stover

[neve1073]

I played a 1948 j50 today which was a real gem. It's a players' guitar---beat to hell, but tone and playability were great.

I also played a collins dreadnought and an OH model cedartop. The collins are really nice guitars without any doubt. Firstrate materials and craftsmanship. And built to last. The only issue is age. The ones I played were very green (as every new guitar is) and I wonder how long they would take to open up. A few years at least I'm guessing.

So which j50 did you get, how much did you pay and what do you think?

[shikawkee]

I find that new, high-end guitars take about a year to start to open up. It's gotten so I'd rather look for one used.

[Ruphus]

The Almansa arrived today. Seems a bad deal.
My cheapest guitar ( Hernandez for 250 € ) appears like brilliant and full against it.
Nice looking cypress grain on sides and back, but who cares.
Granted it has yet to acclimatize a couple of days ( sounds slightly better already compared to this morning ) and the strings are the worst kind I´ve seen so far, but it will never be what could equal a list price of 1300 €.

It sounds smallish, dull and uneven ( the mids disappearing under the weak bass and the not-that-bad highs ) and has more lacquer damages than the seller had described to me.

I feel misled and wrote him so.

So ebay deal no. 2 for me and a flop.

Ruphus