Distance recording?

[deargodwhy]

It's me again, the girl with plasticthemovie.com. I was wondering what sound equiptment I would need to record audio for distance shots... something like a wireless mic? and what kind of wireless mic would you suggest for the best audio quality.

[cleantone]

Well a lapell (sp?) mic and a wireless pack might suite you fine. Don't you have an audio crew? Thought about just doing ADR?

[RobMacki]

If the shots are so far in the distance that sync is a non issue then it will usually go MOS. You can record wild takes for the post while you have the actors on location or you can do ADR in the studio. If you need to record audio for those takes there are several options. Radio mics are one and it all depends on the budget as to what to suggest.
check out
Trew Audio
Coffey Sound

[RobMacki]

BTW
You can get into deep doo doo if you are inconsistant with the audio on location [Boom and LAV]. Keep your tracks split. If you need to Boom or LAV (depending on the shot) then you should try to do both for the whole thing. It is not as easy as it sounds when you are on location and the crew is waiting on audio.

[deargodwhy]

I knowwhat Boom is, but what is LAV? and what is the difference?

and what is an ADR? I don't actually have a crew, just me and some people to hold mics and things...

[cleantone]

Your really making a film without knowing what ADR is? Automated dialog replacement? As is dubbing it in later? a LAV I believe is lavalier, or lapel mic. I'm certainly no film audio expert though...

[RobMacki]

ADR=Automated Dialog Replacement. Done in Audio Post when location dialog is unuseable.

MOS=Mit(with) Out Sound.

LAV = Lavalier / RF / Radio mic / Lapel mic.

I don't want to burst your bubble but there is a lot to Production Sound. There are sync issues, smpte timecode, pull-up, pull-down, down-convert, frame-rates, sampeling-rates, not to mention day-rates. I guess I'm saying I hope you have the time to learn what you need by call time.

[deargodwhy]

I know there is a lot to making a movie, luckily I have about 6 months prepare before we start shooting, during that time I am going to aquire the equiptment that I need and work with it until I have figured it out. I'm going to school right now for it, but unfortunately only have my associates done, no real work on my major yet... I kind of lucked out on this movie job since there aren't a lot of people in utah to do sound, but admitantly, I don't know a whole lot about what I am doing... hardwarewise... sit me infront of a computer with some sound editing software and i'll work miricles.

As far as ADR and VAP, I know what they mean now that the "slang" has been explained... I know how to dub, and things like that, just not really up on the terms and abriviations for what everything is.

[RobMacki]

I don't claim to be an expert on production sound but I have been doing it for several years now.

It sounds like you will have time to learn. Preparation is the key. Knowing your equipment is also key. I strongly recommend that you learn your equipment by experience before day one of the shoot. Which it sounds like you are after reading your post again.

I believe Trew Audio has "Mixer Packages" available.
Call and talk to one of the guys there and explain the scope of what you need to do. They can set you up and they have experience to get you started with the right equipment pkg. I would become familiar with the equipment long before day one of the shoot.

On location you will need to know that what you are hearing is what is going onto tape. (confidence monitoring) Another thing is set ups and changes happen quickly so you need to know how to trouble shoot on the spot and quickly. You will also need to become familiar with levels and matching levels, the path of the signal and where problems can occur and be corrected. Where distortion is originating from. i.e. LAVs: The mic? The placement of the mic? The Transmitter? The Receiver? The preamp? EQ setting? The out level? The camera input level? The input gain setting? You may need to know sync issues too. Where will the dailies go after the audio leaves your hands. But once you get into a rhythm with a crew it can become easy and fun.

As I have posted before, there are some good books to help. Feel free to keep asking questions. That's how we all learn. This is one of the best sites on the net for good resource.

[Berolzheimer]

Originally posted by RobMacki


MOS=Mit(with) Out Sound.

There are sync issues, sympte timecode, pull-up, pull-down, down-convert, frame-rates, sampeling-rates, not to mention day-rates. I guess I'm saying I hope you have the time to learn what you need by call time.

It's "mit ohne sound", which is classic bad germglish- "ohne" means without by itself.

And it's spelled "smpte", stands for Society of Motion Picture & Television Engineers.

[7rojo7]

additional dialog recording?

[thenewyear]

additional dialog recording?

yeah thats what i thought too. what is automated about it??

[ProFool]

This 744T looks an awsome cool product for recording rehearsals and stuff, very compact, it's just aint cheap

744T

[RobMacki]

And it's spelled "smpte", stands for Society of Motion Picture & Television Engineers. [/b]

It was a dyslexic moment. I had just typed sync (with the 'y'). It just came out! I didn't mean to!! It was getting close to my bed time!!! Let's see what else..... I know this. Really, I do...Forgive me Father for I have sinned......AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

[RobMacki]

Originally posted by thenewyear
yeah thats what i thought too. what is automated about it??

You can record "wild takes" off camera on location and spot them where ever you want in the timeline like ADR if sync is not an issue or if a shot was MOS.

[RobMacki]

Originally posted by Berolzheimer
It's "mit ohne sound", which is classic bad germglish- "ohne" means without by itself.

This originated with German director Otto Preminger who would say "Mit out sound! Mit out sound!" He probably said "Mit ohne sound." What do I know. It was shortened to MOS.

[Berolzheimer]

All's forgiven Rob.

The a is for automatic- dialog replacement used to be done with a system called "parrot looping"- in the studio the recordist would run a loop of the bad dialog, with an equal amount of blank space and a little extra, on optical sound film or single stripe mag, and a seperate machine recording the actor. The actor would hear the line, then repeat what they heard, trying to match performance & cadence. When someone figured out a way to do it in sync with picture, it became "automatic". I often think that a lot of actors would do better the old way, focusing on the sound of their performance rather than trying to sync their lips to what they see on screen. But since I rarely have anything to do with the dialog side of things I haven't been able to push this idea- and a lot of people would probably think me heretical for suggesting it.
Then again, a lot of people think that anyways.

[inaudio]

Here's a lower cost idea, that has been used successfully, in an email that was forwarded to me:

"I notice that you do speak audio here from time to time and thought I'd share a new toy I learned about from my sister.

She is using an iRiver <http://www.iriveramerica.com/products/H140.aspx> in
place of a wireless transmitter. Her Tram micworks fine with it and she does not have to worry about radio integrity when shooting.

She also runs an on camera mic for ambient and to get her interview questions and such. She then syncs up the iRiver audio in post with FCP.

So far it has worked like a champ. It is alsorunning and getting the subject when the camera is not rolling. Sometimes she will use one of those lines over a bit of B-roll.

Recently I turned a friend onto this trick for a surfing film he was doing. They sealed an iRiver and put it on a surfer with some cheap lav mics. They killed a few mics, but they got good track."

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