Whatcha think - Vintech 1272 vs. Great River MP-1NV?

[infiniteposse]

Hi all-

So I've sold a few pieces off and have a little cash to play with and I'm on the fence here. I've recently upgraded and gotten an RNP and I like it a lot. It does the clean transparent thing great. Now I'd like to add some more color into the mix and from my reading these seem to be 2 really good contenders.

I understand the obvious differences - 2 channels vs. 1 channel, TRS sends on the MP-1NV, a nice little 1/4 " output on the MP-1NV. I'm wondering if sonically there's a lot seperating them? Also, it seems like the MP-1NV has the little frills that are nice and make life a little easier, but should I get the 2 channels and work around not having the TRS sends and the like? I was kinda envisioning myself chucking out my Logic mixes through the Vintech and re-recording them back to the PC having been Neve-a-fied, but if the 1 channel is a big step up then it might make more sense to get 1 solid channel with some extras and multitrack with it instead. It's mostly me in the studio recording parts one by one, so it's not like I need the stereo pre 24x7, it just seemed very accessible with the Vintech.

One last thing I'll mention is my selection of mics (which is far from extensive) - tlm103, SP C1, match pair of Oktava MC-012's, sm-57 and a c-3000.

I really appreciate any opinions you can pass on.

TIA-

Lee

[Jay Kahrs]

Well, neither one has ever made anything sound that much worse. I will say that the 1272 is a really bad match with some mics and sources. Most notably the TLM 103 on vocals. I think 1 in 30 singers sounds good with that combination to my ears. Probably something to do with where the presence peaks are and how they interact.

[Saucyjack]

Haven't heard the Vintech but the NV rules and I'll bet more flexible and more gain on tap.I would save up for the 2 channel version.You won't regret it.

[infiniteposse]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I think the MP-1NV sounds like the better route for what I'd like to do. I wish I could get the 2 channel version, but I'd like to actually take a vacation this year, so 1 channel it is for now.

Thanks again.

Lee

[Saucyjack]

VACATION :eek:
You don't need no stinkin vacation.
This is GEARSLUTZ by God.

[marcuspo]

I bought a Great River MP-1NV mic pre about a month ago and am very happy. The only thing that I'd change would be to get a second channel. I've used it to run recorded tracks back through. Drums sound amazing when you crunch them up. I have also used the Vintech Dual 72, and found that the Great River MP-1NV sounds better and is more versatile.

Good Luck,
Mark

[infiniteposse]

I guess the good news about getting 1 channel of these though is that it's literally 1/2 of the 2 channel version, so it's not like I'm loosing features or spending more $$$ down the line...

I work a 9-5 jobbie job and I gotst to go on vacation now and again or I'll loose my mind The break helps me get the creative juices flowing and without those, 2 channels or 1 don't make any difference.

Thanks again for all the feedback.

Be well.

[jeronimo]

When you guys say that you re-record tracks thru your GR or vintechs... how and why do you do that?
How do you proceed during trackig so you can send the signal trhu another pre amp later?
Do you track on the GR and send it trhu the GR later?

[marcuspo]

Originally posted by jeronimo
When you guys say that you re-record tracks thru your GR or vintechs... how and why do you do that?
How do you proceed during trackig so you can send the signal trhu another pre amp later?
Do you track on the GR and send it trhu the GR later?

I would assign the track that I'd like to run through the pre to a separate output. Then I'd run that output to the input of the pre, run the output of the pre to the input of your recorder and record the results to a free track. I would do this for a tonal change. This can add punch to a drum track or put a vocal a little more in your face.

Jeronimo, I hope this makes sense.

Mark

[jeronimo]

Ok, I understand all the routing thing, I've been doing this with external FX for a while
Let me see if I can put the question again:
Let's say I have an ordinary pre that I just used to track my vocals. I know I'll have a damn good pre later on mixing sessions... how should I proceed? Should I still track my vocals as hot as I can w/o clipping? Or should I track it a little lower so I can have some headroom later to re-record it thru the nicest pre I can put my hands on??
Do you know what I mean?

[subspace]

I know what you mean, but I don't think that's really the idea here. You record the original track with the best quality pre available, as it can't really be "improved" with a nicer pre later. It can be "driven" through another pre to add some attitude or color, but the track's quality will be limited by whatever pre it was originally recorded with. Driving a track through an MP-1NV won't sound the same as originally recording through it. HTH

[marcuspo]

Originally posted by subspace
I know what you mean, but I don't think that's really the idea here. You record the original track with the best quality pre available, as it can't really be "improved" with a nicer pre later. It can be "driven" through another pre to add some attitude or color, but the track's quality will be limited by whatever pre it was originally recorded with. Driving a track through an MP-1NV won't sound the same as originally recording through it. HTH

This is very true. There are no shortcuts to quality. Try to get at least one good channel. It will put things in perspective.

Mark

[jeronimo]

I know guys, I know it... I just used this kind of example to make things... let's say, "worse"
But, do you keep some headroom or do you track it loud anyways?

[Jay Kahrs]

You should track and make sure your levels correspond to 0VU. That might be as hot as possible, it might mean printing at -12dBfs. Only you can figure that one out because it's based on your rig and how it's calibrated.

What I've done in the past was take the output of a cheaper mixer like a Wackie and run it through my 1272's mic input (30dB pad of course) and take the output of that to the mix format. Never tried it on individual tracks though, mostly because I've never felt the need to. Though sometimes I do use my VMP-2 for EQ.

[jeronimo]

Ok, now one more question ... what does the dBfs mean? I know what VU means... but I don't know about the dBfs

[subspace]

dBFS = decibels under full scale
0dbFS is the topmost limit of your digital meters without going over, so -12dBFS is 12dB under. If your gear's nominal level is +4dBu and maximum level is +22dBu, then you've got 18dB of headroom above 0VU. Setting your levels so that 0dbVU = -18dBFS assures you that you can cleanly drive your converter to full-scale. HTH

[Jay Kahrs]

Totally. A digital meter takes it's readings in dBfs. It's important to know how everything relates and it's really important when your interfacing analog and digital. I think every studio doing all digital recording should have at least one VU meter around to use for setting levels. Also, just to confuse the issue some digital meters read peaks and some read VU. Also, VU meters are very slow to respond and show average level. Peaks and transients won't show up so you need to leave extra headroom. Ain't this fun?

[infiniteposse]

So a new wrinkle has entered my plan. I called a local shop, which shall remain nameless, and they've got a demo, but virtually unused GR MP-2NV that they'll sell for $1666, plus tax. Now for some reason, my sick little mind tells me that this is far better than what I could get a new 2 channel 2NV for and that it's not that much more expensive than the 1 channel 1NV now...cough, cough.

I'd appreciate it if you could all help me delude myself into this purchase. Rationalization of the true need and the small hole of debt is appreciated.

Thanks:D

[tommyd]

If you DON'T buy it, at least tell me where I CAN!rollz It's a good choice, take the plunge and enjoy!! TommyD

[Ol' Betsey]

If it works... BUY IT!!!!

[infiniteposse]

Thanks for the encouragement to be bad. I called back and asked if $1666 was the best they could do and they went down to $1550, so I had to say yes. It was a moral imperative I think...or maybe I'm just a gearslut...

I think I'm done with pres for a while now. Between the 2NV and the RNP I think I'll try to remember how to write music and make my room quiet enough for it all to matter

be well-

lee

[subspace]

I don't suppose the price ($1666) was a clue as to who was selling it? Their name wouldn't happen to appear on the front panel, would it?

[jackassman]

Originally posted by subspace
I don't suppose the price ($1666) was a clue as to who was selling it? Their name wouldn't happen to appear on the front panel, would it?

I highly doubt Fletcher is desperate where he needs to ***** out a piece for a loss.

[jackassman]

I don't ****ing believe it I was ****ing censored for saying *****.

[infiniteposse]

I actually got it from a local SF shop, Audio Images. They're getting ready to move shop to a new location nearbye and didn't want to schlup more than they needed to with them. They had this out as a display unit that's gotten little to no use. Dumb luck. I'm rationalizing it by thinking that I got the 2nd channel for 50% off.

[mantovibe]

You'll love it,especially for electric guitars.I am really into mine
And a deal like that ....pretty insane.

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally posted by jackassman
I don't ****ing believe it I was ****ing censored for saying *****.

Interesting... I didn't do it. Maybe the software? What was the word? Email me... MooseAudio@aol.com

[JoHoozaFats...]

as far as re driving thru a pre goes...

how would something sound, say vox, recorded thru a mp-1nv, then routed out of a ad/da convertor, into the mp, back into the convertor?

[NathanEldred]

Originally posted by JoHoozaFats...
as far as re driving thru a pre goes...

how would something sound, say vox, recorded thru a mp-1nv, then routed out of a ad/da convertor, into the mp, back into the convertor?

The problem there is that 1) multiple conversions degrade the audio....what your talking about here would be a total of three...one in during tracking, one out to the NV, one back into the computer. 2) the only way to get into the Great River at the properly matched 600 ohm load is through the -10 input on the back...there may not always be enough gain to drive the +4 signal (depends on how hot you have the track). Also the -10 ouput does not utilize the output transformer, so it won't give you as much of the character that you may be seeking in doing this. The intrument DI is @ 1.2 mega ohms (!) and the mic input is either 300 or 1200 ohms (you could pad this down, but you still have the impedance issues). But ok, you could use your ears and see what happens, it may be cool for gritty stuff, but I think what you need is a +4 line input 600ohm input with a transformer there...something like on a fatso.

[Jax]

Originally posted by infiniteposse
I actually got it from a local SF shop, Audio Images. They're getting ready to move shop to a new location nearbye and didn't want to schlup more than they needed to with them.

I dig Audio Images 'cos they don't give you that sales garbage like Cutting Edge or (ack) guit***** center. Ron is the coolest but doesn't anyone else run the register or handle the floor? Everyone but him is stuck in a little wall office whenever I go there. And it's too dark in there (lol).

Prices are usually ok but not great. Still better to support a little shop than gc or catalog houses. Looks like you paid a visit at the right time. Congrats!