A small documentary from recording a children choir

[ISedlacek]

For the last two days we had been recording a CD of the famous children choir Iuventus Gaude in a beautiful St. Ann´s Church.

Pictures show the choir in recording action and the choir listening to choirmaster´s inspiring comments in between takes.

[ISedlacek]

Schoeps MK21 in NOS position was the main stereo pair.

MK2 outriggers on the sides.

The complete microphone setup.

[ISedlacek]

An improvised control room in the sacristy.

Everything was recorded in Samplitude through RME AES-32 card. Main computer controlled via "remote desktop" laptop

Preamps:
Forssell SMP-2 (4 channels)
Thermionic Culture Earlybird 2.2 (as a line input for the piano)

AD - DAD AX-24 + Forssell custom made AD (recorded in 96kHz)

Millenia HV-3 on top of the rack. I wanted to make an ABC sample recording the same take using Forssell/Millennia/Ealrybird preamps. But in the end, there was unfortunately not much time for it ...

Neatly folded cables are the first step to success

It was very nice experience and hopefully also nice result. I will return to the recorded material in a few days and will start editing and sound optimising ...


PS: what kind of news is that suddenly I am allowed to use only 6 pictures in a post including smilies ?? Even if the pictures are stored at my own server ... I had to divide the post in three posts ... What sense does it have ? In the result it comes to exactly the same thing. There is only extra trouble with it ...

[Chris Wilson]

Dear ISedlacek

Thank you for posting these pictures, this looks like a joy of a project to work on.

Out of curiosity, would you tell us: Are you also running the DAD converter at 96k, or are you using DXD? I have heard such good things about both DAD and Forsell A/D, which a studio north of Seattle uses, and would love to hear an A/B comparison someday.

From the picture, I am guessing your main pair is eight or nine meters back, but cannot really tell, and I am only guessing at the hight.

Again, thank you for sharing images this project and your beautiful remote rig.

[jg1983]

Looks impressive, ISedlacek! Where did you get the long stereo bar from? I do a lot of recording with spaced omnis and have been searching the net for a couple of weeks now for a simple stereo bar that's about 1m long and can only find the really expensive ones (AEA, Schoeps etc.).

Jonathan

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by Chris Wilson

Dear ISedlacek


Out of curiosity, would you tell us: Are you also running the DAD converter at 96k, or are you using DXD? I have heard such good things about both DAD and Forsell A/D, which a studio north of Seattle uses, and would love to hear an A/B comparison someday.

From the picture, I am guessing your main pair is eight or nine meters back, but cannot really tell, and I am only guessing at the hight.

It was recorded in 96k. I am still not sure about any substantial sound advantage of DSD/DXD formats.
The main pair was about 6 meters back from the choir

Originally Posted by jg1983

Where did you get the long stereo bar from? I do a lot of recording with spaced omnis and have been searching the net for a couple of weeks now for a simple stereo bar that's about 1m long and can only find the really expensive ones (AEA, Schoeps etc.).

Jonathan

2-3 years ago a local turner made it for me - for about 25 EUR . It looks and works exactly like those terribly overpriced bars from Schoeps ad DPA ...

[DaveD]

Hi Ivo,

Any chance of us hearing samples of this recording in the near future?

Dave

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by DaveD

Hi Ivo,

Any chance of us hearing samples of this recording in the near future?

Dave

Hopefully :-))

BTW this choir has won gold and silver medal this weekend at the World Choir Games in Graz (among hundreds of choirs from the whole world) - in the category of children choirs and spiritual music

Graz | July 2008: Musica Mundi

[bcgood]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

Hopefully :-))

I'm crossing my fingers, I would love to hear this. Great looking set up except where's the tape? Just kidding

[brle]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

Main computer controlled via "remote desktop" laptop

Hi Ivo,
this is very interesting setup, could you elaborate on this? If I understand it correctly, you need to install Samplitude only on main PC and then you can access to files directly from a laptop. Do you use XP professional "remote desktop" features or similar softwer on your computers and how are they connected (ad hoc wireless network comes to mind)?

Sascha

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by brle

Hi Ivo,
this is very interesting setup, could you elaborate on this? If I understand it correctly, you need to install Samplitude only on main PC and then you can access to files directly from a laptop. Do you use XP professional "remote desktop" features or similar softwer on your computers and how are they connected (ad hoc wireless network comes to mind)?

Sascha

This is actually very cool thing that I discovered with a help and hint of my computer friend. Originally I have laptop + Magma expansion with Lynx AES inside for mobile recordings. But this setup is quite a frustrating lottery for me, sometimes works, other time "no Lynx drivers available" etc. Simply headache.

To take a big computer means also to carry LCD, mouse, keyboard, which is not very exciting.

But I got a hint about the feature called "remote desktop" (normally available in XP and Vista) that enables one computer to be fully controlled by another computer. After some tweaking I finally managed to connect my laptop with studio PC in a way that I open "remote desktop" function on laptop and see the PC on my laptop and fully control it (the laptop works just as a LCD/mouse/keyboard in this case). The computers are connected via ethernet cable

It worked great and my next step is to make a rack PC specially devoted to mobile recordings , which will be controlled by the laptop - that means no LCD etc. needed + it will be placed in a rack with other things,which in the end results as if I record just on a laptop (very handy). Ideal setup for me ... (with the Magma/Lynx thing as a backup in case something fails)

[brle]

Very cool indeed!

[ISedlacek]

Finally I got to some finalising of the recording.

Here is a sample of one recorded piece. How does it sound to you ?

AGNUS DEI

[resound]

Beautiful as always.

I would be curious to hear a snippet of just the MK21 to hear how they captured the main image. Conversely, how much of the MK2 did you mix in (standard MK2 and not MK2S/H)?

Which mics had which converters?

Thanks for sharing a really talented group of young musicians!

[ISedlacek]

MK21 were the mains NOS, MK2 side outriggers. Preamps are Forssell SMP-2, ADs DAD AX-24 - that time I unfortunately still did not have the discreet Forssell AD converter (with it, it would sound yet better), I used the Forssell IC ADC for recording the piano.
I mixed MK21 with MK2 cca 3:2.

Here is a bit with just MK21:

Agnus MK21

and here outriggers MK2:

Agnus MK2

This was actually just the chamber choir.

Here are two samples of the full choir:

Gaudete

And with piano:

Gloria

The reverb is just natural overall (big church), nothing added

[ISedlacek]

Oh, in the end (when they were a bit tired already), I persuaded them to sing two extra bits just for changing the preamps:

KYRIE - Millennia HV-3 preamp

KYRIE - Forssell SMP-2 preamp

Both samples Schoeps MK21 + DAD AX-24 ADC

[d_fu]

Ivo,

the link to the MK2 file is not correct... And there are some dropouts or so in the Forssell file. Or my download didn't work...

I somehow prefer the pure Mk21 version to the mix - there's something too direct about that, IMHO...

I would like to compare more, but everytime I switch between files, my 4 1/2-year-old daughter complains (she's singing along with very good intonation here...)
She also strongly complained about one or two dropouts I had because the PC is busy with some copying... Critical audience here..

I also like the Latin with an accent, "eleison", etc..

Daniel

[ISedlacek]

I checked everything : MK2 link normally works and I do not hear any dropouts in Forssell file ...

[resound]

Ivo,

The MK2 links goes to the MK21 file.

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by VukOnCrack

Ivo,

The MK2 links goes to the MK21 file.

Sorry, typo, fixed ...

[videoteque]

Ivo, I'm downloading, thanks for posting!!!

[Melodioso]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

Oh, in the end (when they were a bit tired already), I persuaded them to sing two bits and I just changed the preamps:

KYRIE - Millennia HV-3 preamp

KYRIE - Forssell SMP-2 preamp

Both samples Schoeps MK21 + DAD AX-24 ADC

Thanks for the samples! To me, both of these preamps performed well. I could not pick a clear "winner" between the two... The Forssell seemed more natural, and the Millennia more present, which suited well the material (maybe I'd liked the mic closer to the choir here). I had the occasions to work with the DAD, and really liked to unit: the ADC as well as the preamps were stellar. But I suppose you prefer the SMP-2?

[ISedlacek]

To me, the main difference between SMP-2 and Millennia is the space, smoothness and depth. To my ears, comparing to SMP-2, HV-3 sounds a bit "anemic", smaller, also the voices sound a bit thinner and more strident with Millennia... (one can also call it "presence" ...I wouldn't ...) , SMP-2 sounds also more natural, closer to the real sound as we hear it by ears in the given space ... But of course, we are talking about our favorite "esoteric" sound dimensions ...

I actually also made a third sample using Thermionic Earlybird. But unfortunately by mistake I let the EQ section on , so it was not very straightforward comparison, so I better don't post it ...

Anyway, the recording process as such was very quick ... (they were just leaving for the world choir olympics in Graz - where they btw won a gold and silver medal in the category of spiritual music and children choir). So under normal circumstances, this would be just a good rehearsal and sound check for the real recording - where (based on listening to the results) I would most probably get a bit closer to the choir to get less ambient sound a bit ... well, next time )

[Audiop]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

Finally I got to some finalising of the recording.

Here is a sample of one recorded piece. How does it sound to you ?

AGNUS DEI

How it sounds to me? Excellent! :-)

I prefer the mix compared to each pair on its own. Seems more open and clear somehow.

May I ask how far away the outriggers was from the main pair.

Thanks for posting!


/Peter

[Gaston69]

Hi Ivo,

I heard also a few dropouts however these are very very nice recordings, my compliments.

By the way I recently recorded also a choir with a chamber orchestra and they played also a "Kyrie" which can be heard on my website, please bare in mind that's a Live recording (church was completetly full approx 300- 400 people). Recorded with the Paintpot and 1 pair of DPA4060.

Again, my compliments.

Gaston

[aracu]

Ivo, any possibility of posting a short mp3 file?

Those wavs take a long time to download.

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by aracu

Ivo, any possibility of posting a short mp3 file?

Those wavs take a long time to download.

I could do that, but now I am in Taiwan So, later ...

[aracu]

Have a nice holiday!

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by aracu

Have a nice holiday!

Holiday ?? What is it ? Never had any ) Having 10 workshops and seminars around Taiwan (yogic music therapy & Savita Yoga)

[Lynn Fuston]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

Oh, in the end (when they were a bit tired already), I persuaded them to sing two extra bits just for changing the preamps:

KYRIE - Millennia HV-3 preamp

KYRIE - Forssell SMP-2 preamp

Both samples Schoeps MK21 + DAD AX-24 ADC

I know I'm coming to the party late, but I'd love to hear this comparison but the files are gone. I tried the parent directory but was forbidden. Are they still there? Any chance of hearing them?