NEW - RADAR V AND RADAR 24

[JOHN]

Hi everyone

What’s your view on the new radar v and radar 24 new features.
The new radar v is about $18,000?

The new faster radar 24 upgrade scsi pci card is $4000 ( scsi card only )

GO TO
http://recordingtheworld.infopop.cc/...82&m=847100049

What do you think?

[drew]

I think they cost too much and don't do enough for the way I work. I sold mine last year. But they are held in some sort of mythic regard around here. If you like to use tempo maps and do multiple drums takes and cut and paste between them and do the same for vox, you won't be happy with one. They do sound great and are the most reliable computer I've ever seen.

[walrus]

I've been using my RADAR 24 for 2 years now: they are dependable ( not one single crash), easy to use, sound great, and if you need extensive editing hook it up to your favorite DAW (mine is Samplitude), and do the editing. As for the new RADAR V, I think it is just a little out of my price range, but it is a great unit too.

[Drumsound]

I think the RADAR is great. The workflow and interface are very simple and straightforward. It doesn't act like a computer, which I like. Today I was tracking myself playing bass on a client project. I'm not a trained bass player, so I made a lot of stupid little mistakes. I could just back up the RADAR a bit, fine where I biffed something, hit the Mark In button, engage Auto punch and keep going. I didn't need to each someone how to use the machine, I could do it by myself.

The converters sound really nice and full. I often mix analog projects to two RADAR tracks at 24-bit/88.2. I'd love to get the new adrenaline card and do 24-tracks at high res., but $4k is tough right now...The machine does still sound quite nice at 44.1/48k.

I'm sure the RADAR V will be very cool as well. Three drive bays and a quieter box are definitely a plus.

[enharmonic]

If I had the beans, I'd get one or four . As it stands, I have to re-think my setup, and will likely go native until I can afford a Radar V and a "real" console.

[Revelation]

Limited to 24 tracks, with no effects. Just a glorified tape machine. For 18K, no thank you. Heck you can get PT HD 2 and a Control 24 for the same price and you get a hell of a lot more for your money.

[Lynn Fuston]

Originally posted by Drumsound
I think the RADAR is great. The workflow and interface are very simple and straightforward. It doesn't act like a computer, which I like.

I can't tell you how many times I've said and/or heard someone say "If PT had a remote control like the RADAR and sounded like a RADAR, then no one would need RADARs anymore."

Alas, PT doesn't and doesn't. Which is why they keep selling RADARs.

I don't know of a single system out there that is digital and more reliable and has a more efficient user interface.

I just remembered I have to track to PT tomorrow. I dread it every time. For vocals it's OK. For tracking with a full rhythm section, what a drag.

[drew]

I loved my Radar about 70% of the time, but the remaining time it kept me from doing what I needed to do. PT can be dumbed down and if you have a Command 8 and some programmable trackballs or Contour Shuttle pros etc, it can be behave much like a Radar. Unfortunately you can't make a radar do a simple slide and heal the separation or fix a punch because you were 3 ms late and on and on. Let's just hope they can stay in business and keep giving people choices.

[studjo]

Originally posted by Lynn Fuston
.

I just remembered I have to track to PT tomorrow. I dread it every time. For vocals it's OK. For tracking with a full rhythm section, what a drag.

Lynn that's exactly what I do everyday I'm in the studio - recording or mixing whole live bands to PT. Not a single glitch since I installed HD (summer) and in 5 years of PT LE not one track lost.

It's all about how you set up your little puter

Jo

[RKrizman]

Originally posted by Lynn Fuston
[B]I can't tell you how many times I've said and/or heard someone say "If PT had a remote control like the RADAR and sounded like a RADAR, then no one would need RADARs anymore."

Alas, PT doesn't and doesn't. Which is why they keep selling RADARs.

That's a little misleading, since RADAR, as a multitrack machine, doesn't have any sound at all until it's mixed out through a console.

Here's a koan for you. What is the sound of one RADAR being mixed inside Protools?

-R

[Lynn Fuston]

Originally posted by RKrizman
That's a little misleading, since RADAR, as a multitrack machine, doesn't have any sound at all until it's mixed out through a console.

Here's a koan for you. What is the sound of one RADAR being mixed inside Protools?

That's easy. I do it all the time. GREAT. Usually, it's the sound of three RADARs being mixed in PT.

Unless you hand any digital recorder exclusively digital inputs, then the "sound" of that recorder is the sound of the ADCs. The RADAR is great in that regard.

[JOHN]

Originally posted by Revelation
Limited to 24 tracks, with no effects. Just a glorified tape machine. For 18K, no thank you. Heck you can get PT HD 2 and a Control 24 for the same price and you get a hell of a lot more for your money.

SO WHAT DO I GET INSTEAD?

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT RADAR'S NEW FEATURES? SOON TO COME I THINK WILL BE

Choices:
Different Colored Waveforms on each track
Greater Waveform Zoom In
Virtual Tracks
Track Mute Map: i.e. Mk In/Out, Select track(s), hit mute. Track is muted, waveform stays but is greyed out, you can undo any mute or all mutes. Also the ability to mute tracks on the fly using track arm buttons(the inverse of track solo)
Display Edit and/or Fade In/Out lines

[JOHN]

Originally posted by drew
I loved my Radar about 70% of the time, but the remaining time it kept me from doing what I needed to do. PT can be dumbed down and if you have a Command 8 and some programmable trackballs or Contour Shuttle pros etc, it can be behave much like a Radar. Unfortunately you can't make a radar do a simple slide and heal the separation or fix a punch because you were 3 ms late and on and on. Let's just hope they can stay in business and keep giving people choices.

PLEASE CAN YOU EXPLAIN MORE?

[kudzu]

To be honest, I think a Nyquist Radar system synced to a DAW (Logic / Nuendo) is the set up we all want...everytime I need to record a band (any musical style / mobile or studio) I hire a Radar system.

[drew]

I used to run exactly that, Radar24 locked to PTLE. I just found I was doing more and more in PT and was sick of moving tracks back and forth so I went PTHD. I do a lot of extensive drum editing (sometimes a drag with not so great players, sometimes it's fun with death/black metal) and if you've ever used a radar you know they are very basic cut/copy/paste editors. And they are very slow at the editing they do do. You can not slide audio within it's region if you need to move a drum hit while maintaining the "air" before or after it, stuff like that. As for punches, in PT with quickpunch engaged you can adjust your punches after the fact since PT is "always" recording from the time you hit play. I hated telling the vocalist to do it again and so I ended up doing most punches as auto punches which kinda messed with the flow. Again, I loved my radar and was sad to see it go. Sounded great, reliable as anything, just a bit limited for my workflow.
drew

[JOHN]

Originally posted by drew
I used to run exactly that, Radar24 locked to PTLE. I just found I was doing more and more in PT and was sick of moving tracks back and forth so I went PTHD. I do a lot of extensive drum editing (sometimes a drag with not so great players, sometimes it's fun with death/black metal) and if you've ever used a radar you know they are very basic cut/copy/paste editors. And they are very slow at the editing they do do. You can not slide audio within it's region if you need to move a drum hit while maintaining the "air" before or after it, stuff like that. As for punches, in PT with quickpunch engaged you can adjust your punches after the fact since PT is "always" recording from the time you hit play. I hated telling the vocalist to do it again and so I ended up doing most punches as auto punches which kinda messed with the flow. Again, I loved my radar and was sad to see it go. Sounded great, reliable as anything, just a bit limited for my workflow.
drew

NOW RADAR V IS FASTER SHOULD I GO FOR IT ? $18,000
THEY WILL HAVE VIRTUAL TRCKS SOON

[Lynn Fuston]

Originally posted by drew
I used to run exactly that, Radar24 locked to PTLE. I just found I was doing more and more in PT and was sick of moving tracks back and forth so I went PTHD.

That's the reason a lot of people (at least here in Nashville) use RADAR as the I/O for PT. You don't have to move tracks back and forth. So, even though it's not the best of both worlds, you do get the RADAR sound with the editing (dragging region boundaries, copy/paste, tempo mapping) conveniences of PT.

I was also disappointed that the V didn't include finer resolution on the screen display. We've been waiting for that one for awhile.

[JOHN]

Originally posted by Lynn Fuston
That's the reason a lot of people (at least here in Nashville) use RADAR as the I/O for PT. You don't have to move tracks back and forth. So, even though it's not the best of both worlds, you do get the RADAR sound with the editing (dragging region boundaries, copy/paste, tempo mapping) conveniences of PT.

I was also disappointed that the V didn't include finer resolution on the screen display. We've been waiting for that one for awhile.

SO WHAT IS $18,000 FOR?

[JOHN]

Originally posted by drew
I used to run exactly that, Radar24 locked to PTLE. I just found I was doing more and more in PT and was sick of moving tracks back and forth so I went PTHD. I do a lot of extensive drum editing (sometimes a drag with not so great players, sometimes it's fun with death/black metal) and if you've ever used a radar you know they are very basic cut/copy/paste editors. And they are very slow at the editing they do do. You can not slide audio within it's region if you need to move a drum hit while maintaining the "air" before or after it, stuff like that. As for punches, in PT with quickpunch engaged you can adjust your punches after the fact since PT is "always" recording from the time you hit play. I hated telling the vocalist to do it again and so I ended up doing most punches as auto punches which kinda messed with the flow. Again, I loved my radar and was sad to see it go. Sounded great, reliable as anything, just a bit limited for my workflow.
drew

SO WOULD YOU BUY THE NEW RADAR V?

[faeflora]

Wow JOHN reign in yer caps!

[drew]

John,
only you can answer that Q. If you educate yourself about the Radar (hopefully getting a demo) and decide it'll suit your needs, you won't be dissapointed with it or the company.

[C.Lambrechts]

John .... stop the yelling .... and be a little bit more subtle about it advertising Radar will ya .... . We all know by now that it's 18k for the new Radar ...

I'll give this one a change to develop some discussion ....


thank you.

[Fletcher]

Well... considering that the RADAR-V, and RADAR-24 w/3.35 software is the ONLY machine that records in 'flattened broadcast wave' files... and that you can do the work you want to do in RADAR, then pull the drive, plug it into a DAW and do your "extensive drum editing" [for the life of me I can not wrap around that concept... if you're looking for that much "stiff" and "perfection" program a fukking drum machine and be done with it already].... then when you're done sucking the life out of the tracks, pull the drive, plug it back into the RADAR system and mix through an analog desk.

Me... I use RADAR because it sounds great, and because I don't have to have the damn screen turned on all the time. I dunno... I never had a screen with any of those $45-50,000 Studer machines which weren't quite as reliable as my RADAR rig... and those $45-50,000 Studer machines didn't allow me to do editing as quickly and easily as the RADAR [then again, I'm one of those idiots who can edit way faster on a RADAR than in a DAW so what do I know].

The only things I can do with a DAW that I can't do with RADAR is throw too many tracks on a song, add "plugins" that further strip all the life from the recording and mix in the box [from the way Dangerous Music, the SPL 'MixDream', the Folcrum and the Speck "LiLo" have been selling... I'd say that it seems like fewer and fewer people are still mixing in the box... go figure].

Drew, with all due respect, I don't know how relevant your RADAR experience is to anyone but you... by the same token, I don't know how relevant my RADAR experience is to anyone but me...

[Revelation]

Originally posted by JOHN
SO WHAT DO I GET INSTEAD?

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT RADAR'S NEW FEATURES? SOON TO COME I THINK WILL BE

Choices:
Different Colored Waveforms on each track
Greater Waveform Zoom In
Virtual Tracks
Track Mute Map: i.e. Mk In/Out, Select track(s), hit mute. Track is muted, waveform stays but is greyed out, you can undo any mute or all mutes. Also the ability to mute tracks on the fly using track arm buttons(the inverse of track solo)
Display Edit and/or Fade In/Out lines

How about Nuendo or Logic with a Yamaha DM 2000. Of course if you prefer you can still use your outboard converters if you don't want the Yammy's. But regardless of how "great" Radar sounds, it's just a digital tape machine for 18K.. No plug ins, routing, mixer capability's, nothing. But for those who have great analog mixers, and hardware gear already, it may be a great option for its ease of work flow.

[drew]

Fletcher,
How about this, instead of making smart ass remarks trying to show how cool your way is, simply give your opinion (as it relates to you, DUH, no sh*t) and I'll give mine, and guy's will sort it out for themselves, cool?
thanks for playing along,
drew

[TER]

I also use the RADAR as the front and back end to a DAW (DP), and it certainly has a sound on the way in AND out. Also serves as a wordclock master in both cases...there are not too many options for clocking 48 converters inside one box, plus the DAW on the outside. Additionally, using the RADAR during a tracking session makes cue mixes from the console easy to do...there's no perceptible latency in a pass through the box. I hate trying to do multiple headphone mixes from inside the computer.

The only downside for me is doing overdubs during a tracking session. When the computer is the actual recorder, you have to re-route everything already recorded to some external d/a converters in order to use the RADAR's a/d. This of course screws the headphone mixes for the tracks already recorded.

Other than that workflow issue (which is not the fault of the RADAR, really), I love the machine and wouldn't want to work any other way.

-tom

[robdarling]

You know, it's funny just how up in arms people can get over gear. Like, really angry about it. THEY ARE JUST TOOLS, KIDS. Would you get pissed at a hammer? Would you bitch that some people use bulldozers, but others use shovels? A Radar is a specific tool for a specific purpose. An amazing tool for that purpose. For people to sit around idly bitching that it isn't worth what it costs is just plain unprofessional. If you have ever used it, you know that is as well-conceived and well-executed a piece of equipment as exists today. Is it for everyone? No. Is it still an amazing piece of kit? Yes. Just because it isn't for you doesn't mean it isn't fantastic. No different from PT, or Nuendo, or MIDI, it is just a tool, not a way of life, the football team you were indoctrinated to love as a child, or a damn religion. It is a tool, and an amazingly built one that deserves every bit of respect that it gets.

The fact is that the new machine is a huge upgrade on the old one. 24 tracks of recording at 192 or 96!!! That is fantastic. For scoring, dubbing, film work- I can see some serious damage being done. Location recording-forget about it. Orchestral work- amazing. And anywhere that you just want to hit record and forget about- awesome. Brilliant sync capabilities, a remote that is only matched by the 3348, as well as the highest level of reliability. These are the things that you get for the money.

I will say, though, that there is an awful lot of sales presence around these boards. Whether it is Chris loving the SSL AWS 9000 or Fletcher loving the Radar, it can be a little much and, I think, gets in the way of keeping the talk at the level of professionalism that it should be held to.

[drew]

I know what you mean robdarling. I give the guy a simple opinion about a piece I owned and used for years, telling him some of the things I liked about it and some of the things it was incapable of doing, so he can make an informed decision. Even telling him to go get a demo and if it suited his needs he would not be disappointed with the product or the company. And you still have people coming in and angrily belittling alternatives and methods to the piece under discussion. weird isn't it?

[robdarling]

Yeah. I stopped using PT three years ago (now on Nuendo.) I still have the HD rig (aka, 15k diploma on the wall that gives me legitmacy) but never use it. I've never gone around slamming Digi. They're not for me, but I can understand the choice.

If I were in the market for new convertors right now, I would consider the Radar because I can do 24 channels of recording at 96 now, and would have the ability to use the Radar for the sessions that I wanted to focus on just the music (I love the Radar when I'm doing certain kinds of productions- it makes it much easier to just listen.) And now that it writes to native bwav, flattens, and has even more backup options (they're ditching the dvd's), moving around is much easier. I'd also love to have it for the straight tracking sessions when I head into the studio to do, say, a drum date, but don't want to lug in my computer.

[drew]

I teach part time at a recording school that has just sold both of it's Radar's and it's a real bummer. I loved teaching on them and the students loved them too. The new V is a step in the right direction just for me it was too little too late. I'm about to buy SX3 (almost Nuendo but only $400) in an attempt to broaden my horizon's and learn a new piece of software.

People do need to know the limitations of something like the Radar though, it's not a DAW and a lot of people think it is.