Acoustic guitar. Recording yourself in a cabin.

[Ihsahn1981]

Hi.

Im planning to retreat to our family cabin for a week to record the acoustic guitars for an acoustic album. No city-noise and it will really set me in the mood.

I will be there by myself so I was wondering if anyone had any tips and tricks about how to go about the recording, setting up the mics for a good sound, workflow etc..

I have recorded acoustic guitars before but never done it all alone.
If anyone has done such a thing before I love to hear about your experience.
I really want to spend most of my time there recording and not fall into too many pitfalls.

One thing I have already done is to make project files with all the necessary click tracks and such. I have also printed out tab sheets for all the songs.


Any help is appreciated..



These are the mics I have available:

2x sE3 mics (matched pair)
2x Oktava MC012-01
1x sE 2200a
1x SM57
1x Rode NT1-A

Im just gonna bring them all I think.

[BudgetMC]

Invest some time moving around the cabin while playing guitar. Listen very closely to how it sounds where. Find the places where it sounds the most like what you are going for with each song, and then work with mic placement to capture that sound. The selection of mics you've got should give you plenty of options.

[Mertmo]

I think recording myself playing acoustic guitar is one of the easiest things ever. Simple, put up a mic, turn up the headphones so you can hear it real well, move around the mic a little while you play. You will find the sweet spot almost instantly. Now you know where it is, you can stay right there or even move around during the performance for creative effect.

The suggestion about finding the best spot in the room is awesome of course, do that first. But when it comes to the actual tracking... Never understood why this was considered hard. If you can see your mic preamp's controls and the level you are printing, you are good to go. I mean, YOU are the one controlling both the input chain and the mic technique... One of the easiest 'recording yourself' tasks there is IMO.

maybe I'm a freak... well, that's for sure actually.

[Ihsahn1981]

Originally Posted by Mertmo2

I think recording myself playing acoustic guitar is one of the easiest things ever. Simple, put up a mic, turn up the headphones so you can hear it real well, move around the mic a little while you play. You will find the sweet spot almost instantly. Now you know where it is, you can stay right there or even move around during the performance for creative effect.

The suggestion about finding the best spot in the room is awesome of course, do that first. But when it comes to the actual tracking... Never understood why this was considered hard. If you can see your mic preamp's controls and the level you are printing, you are good to go. I mean, YOU are the one controlling both the input chain and the mic technique... One of the easiest 'recording yourself' tasks there is IMO.

maybe I'm a freak... well, that's for sure actually.

You might be right.

I will need to use multiple mics though. Its all picking and it would be impossible for me to doubletrack myself. Im a bit worried about phase relationship since I will be running back and forth between the DAW and the guitar. Any ideas on how I can be sure that the guitar is positioned in exactly the same way every time?

[Greg Curtis]

Why not sit right at the DAW's control/screen and play? If the computer is really noisy, move it around to find the least noisy position for it, and place the mic so that it rejects whatever sound remains. I do this all the time when I test mics, and it can be surprisingly quiet.

GC

[skythemusic]

Good suggestions. I do this all the time and find it to be one of the easier studio tasks. I pretty much strictly record myself at this point, mostly acoustically. Having a reliable set of headphones is key. I use the EX29's and have found them to be pretty accurate, especially in the mids and highs for tracking. They are not harsh like the 7506's.

Play while walking around the room and listen. Set up a chair or stool where it sounds right to you and then position the mics in whatever way you want (I've been really digging m/s lately). Then press record and have at it. I personally don't use a click. I just do lots of takes until it sounds right and has the right flow. I'm not into "perfect" timing.

Don't worry about it being the same every time. It won't be so why stress that. You'll start to learn the subtle differences in the headphones and will eventually realize where you are positioned in relationship to the mic/mics and correct your self before each take. I rarely have phase problems with acoustic guitars, especially in m/s config. And, phasing almost always sounds cool to me anyway, especially when it is subtle.

Wheres the family cabin and how do I get an isolated family cabin???

[David R.]

Treat your self as you would a client. Do you offer candles or hot tea/coffee to your clients?

How much time would you spend on the set up for a client? What do you do for them to make them comfortable and to make the environment conducive for creativity?

Don't skimp.

And remember, pre-roll is your friend.

[Ihsahn1981]

Originally Posted by skythemusic

Good suggestions. I do this all the time and find it to be one of the easier studio tasks. I pretty much strictly record myself at this point, mostly acoustically. Having a reliable set of headphones is key. I use the EX29's and have found them to be pretty accurate, especially in the mids and highs for tracking. They are not harsh like the 7506's.

Play while walking around the room and listen. Set up a chair or stool where it sounds right to you and then position the mics in whatever way you want (I've been really digging m/s lately). Then press record and have at it. I personally don't use a click. I just do lots of takes until it sounds right and has the right flow. I'm not into "perfect" timing.

Don't worry about it being the same every time. It won't be so why stress that. You'll start to learn the subtle differences in the headphones and will eventually realize where you are positioned in relationship to the mic/mics and correct your self before each take. I rarely have phase problems with acoustic guitars, especially in m/s config. And, phasing almost always sounds cool to me anyway, especially when it is subtle.

Wheres the family cabin and how do I get an isolated family cabin???

Thanks. My hopes are climbing now with all the positive feedback about this way of recording.

Our cabin is deep in the norwegian forest. Just the cabin, the trees and the odd wolf or two

[Brontosauce]

Yes, it shouldn't be too hard to record some decent acoustic music by yourself as long as the technical stuff doesn't overburden the music which -I admit- I sometimes lose sight of myself trying to "compress that second mike" perfectly...

Nowadays I position two mikes (one small cardioid cond aimed at the joint of the neck & one omni (tube) near the bridge/bottom of the guitar) in a nice sounding spot a long way from the computer. It gets easier to make "sound" choices (pun intended ) if you get yourself a good, long stereo jack cable so you can walk back and forth between computer and guitar spot without taking the cans off.

I wouldn't advise recording with click either (unless maybe you want a drummer/percussion player to add something on afterwards...), it's pretty easy to edit between different takes. I guess you might be suprised how much tempos and dynamics match between different takes. Just edit the good parts together afterwards, play them one after another if you must/want. It's much sweeter to be a musician for a while and then become the engineer again after a couple of takes, instead of alternating all the time and maybe lose the flow of both.

There's recently been a good album by the recording artist Bon Iver, who retreated to his winter log cabin and recorded an entire album by himself with just an SM57. Works just fine.

My 2 cents, good luck !

[Timothy Lawler]

When you're determining mic positions mark the floor by the mic stands and chair legs with masking tape for when they accidentally get moved...

You didn't mention monitoring. I wouldn't determine mic position/sound quality just based on headphones.

A key thing in this is going to be the room's sound. I'd bring ten or so OC703 panels with me... enough to lean up in corners and position as makeshift gobos. ...it'll also help with monitoring effectiveness.

[Ihsahn1981]

Originally Posted by Timothy Lawler

When you're determining mic positions mark the floor by the mic stands and chair legs with masking tape for when they accidentally get moved...

You didn't mention monitoring. I wouldn't determine mic position/sound quality just based on headphones.

A key thing in this is going to be the room's sound. I'd bring ten or so OC703 panels with me... enough to lean up in corners and position as makeshift gobos. ...it'll also help with monitoring effectiveness.

Indeed.. I will record some "key riffs" in different mic positions and then check the sound with my monitors.

I dont have any panels or gobos unfortunately. All I have is a sE Reflexion Filter.

I was wondering, how much can I move the guitar itself before I get phasing issues. Since I will be running a bit back and forth + using multiple mics Im guessing that this might become troublesome. Anyone have any info on this?

Also, I have had some problems with breathing noises when recording. Anyone have any ingenious solutions to this problem? In the past I have just tied a cloth around my mouth and nose. Works alright but its a bit uncomfortable

[Timothy Lawler]

Originally Posted by Ihsahn1981

...how much can I move the guitar itself before I get phasing issues. Since I will be running a bit back and forth + using multiple mics Im guessing that this might become troublesome.

Depends on the mic configuration and how close they are to the source. I rarely have mic's closer than 3 ft myself, and usually have them in near coincident configs, so it's not an issue.

If you're using wider configurations, like neck/body joint-bridge positioning with the mic's 2 ft or closer, it's a big deal. For close mic'ing use a tape measure and a notebook on the floor next to the chair.

One of the attractive things about XY configuration is that it avoids phase problems by nature. But it's a whole different kind of sound than the wider-than-real-life neck/body-bridge AB configuration.

[swafford]

I walk around a room till I find a spot that seems to sound best, set up my refreshments, set a general level well under peak, hit record, put on some headphones and move my body, the guitar and mic till I find a position that sounds like what I'm after, then remove the headphones and go for it. The more you find yourself sh!tting the details, the less work you will get done. It's a fine balance when you record yourself.

[donsimpson]

I will need to use multiple mics though. Its all picking and it would be impossible for me to doubletrack myself. Im a bit worried about phase relationship since I will be running back and forth between the DAW and the guitar. Any ideas on how I can be sure that the guitar is positioned in exactly the same way every time?

Assuming you're not bouncing around too much while playing, find the sweet spot below and behind the bridge for one mic (preferably LDC), and position an SDC somewhere around the 12th fret, pointing at the neck joint. They should be far enough apart (the 3-1 rule) that you shouldn't have any phasing problems.

[Rednose]

I did a video for Gearwire.com about the recording techniqs on our latest cd.
Here is the video on acoustic guitar tips.
Blue Microphones Blueberry: Matt Mercado's Primo Acoustic Guitar Mic Has Antioxidants | Gearwire

I also like to compress acoustic guitar going to daw.
I would recommend renting a nice hardware compressor and lightly touch it.
Basically I've found 3 tips that work.
One is aim the mic about 4 inches from the guitar where the neck and body meet.
Another that works well for me is aiming at the bridge.
There is also the over the shoulder techniq.
You can also stereo mic with on aiming at the bridge, the other aiming at where the neck meets the body.
I recorded alot of the acoustic myself in the control room on the cd if you want to check it out.
MySpace.com - Matt Mercado and the Amazing Devils - Chicago, Illinois - Acoustic / Rock - www.myspace.com/mattmercadosolo
Good luck!
Matt

[Ihsahn1981]

Im playing a classical guitar (nylon) though. Not steel strings.
Just thought you should know.

Doesnt matter much I think. Much of the same applies.

[Dr Gris]

Why not record the guitar in mono?
I usually use a figure 8 ribbon for this at the 12.th fret.
It gives a nice focus on the guitar, I guess any mic/pattern will do,
but I prefer fig 8 or omni.
Then I use two room mics in stereo that I blend in for depth and width.

An extension cable for the headphones is a very good idea.

Kind regards
Magnus

[Timothy Lawler]

Originally Posted by Ihsahn1981

Im playing a classical guitar (nylon) though. Not steel strings.

Even more important then, IMO, not to have the mic's too close, if you want a natural sound on classical guitar. But the further away the mic's are, the better the room sound has to be. How big is the cabin?

[Old Goat]

My $.02, if I may. Once you get everything set up, just play. Don't stop and try to fix that glitch, don't mess with the fx, don't do anything but hit Save and play. There'll be plenty of time to tweak, comp, eq, whatever, later! Don't ass up your flow. Be an engineer, then be a musician until your fingers cramp up.

[doncaparker]

In terms of getting a good natural sound at minimal investment of time and energy, don't overlook the Blumlein method. I love it for solo acoustic guitar. You'll have to have two figure 8 mics, but I think it is well worth it, even if you have to go buy some inexpensive mics to get there. Get a pair of multi-pattern LDC's and you will have some real flexibility.

Also, since you are both playing and running the computer, I suggest setting up such that the CPU is in another space, but the monitor, keyboard and mouse are an arm's reach away. You can get a special extension cord for this. Banishing the CPU is necessary for noise control, but having the rest close by will save you lots and lots of little trips to the computer. Trust me, you don't want to have to get up for every little thing.

If you go with Blumlein, I think mic placement can be relatively easy. Start out with the mics near the neck/body joint, about 1-2 feet away, with the space between the mics pointed at the guitar. Just move around, tilt yourself, ect., and see what sounds good over the headphones. Then stop moving, start recording, and play. When you play it back over monitors, it will sound different, but it will probably sound good, and you now have a reference point for tweaking.

[Old Goat]

Originally Posted by doncaparker

Also, since you are both playing and running the computer, I suggest setting up such that the CPU is in another space, but the monitor, keyboard and mouse are an arm's reach away. You can get a special extension cord for this. Banishing the CPU is necessary for noise control, but having the rest close by will save you lots and lots of little trips to the computer. Trust me, you don't want to have to get up for every little thing.

+1
Redco has long VGA cables (well made), and you can run the mouse and keyboard off a powered USB hub a long way from the CPU.

[MJ Heck]

Major second to walking around the room. Once you find the spot, also play facing a
variety of directions - given the presumably different distances to the walls and the
potential for different materials (i.e. wall versus window) you will likely have
a preference for one sound over another.

I also had a problem with my own breathing - glad to know it's a shared affliction!

I have prattled on about this before on GS, but I had simply fantastic luck using
an SM7B (without either windscreen and low cut engaged) when recording acoustic
guitar - I know it's uncool to recommend gear when you have listed your resources,
but it was that big of a deal. Previously, I was using a TM1 - incredible when perfectly
positioned, but I had one hell of a time staying in the sweet spot and keeping consistent
tone throughout a take - too much swaying to the beat, among other things.

Overall I found it was a much more forgiving recording experience, and embarrassingly
simple - pretty much on axis right at the sound hole though I did like the height a little
lower - aimed at E and B. Of course, with the dynamic is you won't pick up as many
wolf calls in the background.

Lastly, baby powder. Good on fingers to reduce squeaking, and on the right arm (if
right handed) to reduce noise if you get a little sweaty.

Sounds like a great time - make something beautiful for us.

MJH

[Kyle S]

could baby powder use muck up a mic? that stuff is pretty fine.

[Ihsahn1981]

Why not record the guitar in mono?
I usually use a figure 8 ribbon for this at the 12.th fret.
It gives a nice focus on the guitar, I guess any mic/pattern will do,
but I prefer fig 8 or omni.
Then I use two room mics in stereo that I blend in for depth and width.

An extension cable for the headphones is a very good idea.

Kind regards
Magnus

Not sure about recording in mono. My past experience has been that it usually works best if the "rythm guitar" tracks is in stereo. Then I add 2nd guitars and solo guitar on top of that.
Im also going to have vocals, acoustic bass, flute and possibly violins too.
I dont have any figure 8 mics unfortunately.

I have heard about people recording the guitar in mono and then panned the guitar left + panned the reverb right. Anyone ever tried this?

Even more important then, IMO, not to have the mic's too close, if you want a natural sound on classical guitar. But the further away the mic's are, the better the room sound has to be. How big is the cabin?

My recording area is approx: 23x20x17 ft. with angled roof
Its all timber.
This is just an estimate but something like that..

Lastly, baby powder. Good on fingers to reduce squeaking, and on the right arm (if
right handed) to reduce noise if you get a little sweaty.

I will try that for sure!

I wouldn't advise recording with click either (unless maybe you want a drummer/percussion player to add something on afterwards...), it's pretty easy to edit between different takes. I guess you might be suprised how much tempos and dynamics match between different takes. Just edit the good parts together afterwards, play them one after another if you must/want. It's much sweeter to be a musician for a while and then become the engineer again after a couple of takes, instead of alternating all the time and maybe lose the flow of both.

This sounds like a very good idea. I havent planned on using much percussion except a snare drum on one part.
I will be adding vocals, acoustic bass and flute for sure though. Maybe they will have a hard time if I dont use click. Not sure.

[miqer]

Originally Posted by Brontosauce

There's recently been a good album by the recording artist Bon Iver, who retreated to his winter log cabin and recorded an entire album by himself with just an SM57. Works just fine.

Flume (the 1st song) is great... very good vocal sound. I wonder what they did afterwards... probably put all the tracks in protools etc, and excited the shit out of them. Or perhaps not?

Great sound, simpel song, rock & roll at it's best....

M.

.

[jwh1192]

first thing i would be aware of is the new ambience you are in ... animals crickets and such will all be active at one part of the day or another ..

you may feel like recording but the crickets are mating and you know who always wins in the death match ... so be patient with nature ... it will give you the silence you need .. eventually

sounds like a great thing to do to get some fresh perspective .. enjoy ..

and learn and use the room ... always put up a distant mike setup .. something large diaphram that will have good reach .. if you can ... use the smaller diaphram mics for the closer work .. IMHO

cheers

john

[Knastratt]

Wolves are best captured with a shot-gun microphone and added later in production. A tad of reverb does the trick.

[ebot9000]

If you don't have gobos, rent them. or at least buy some 705 fiberglass panels and some gloves (although that gets a bit messy)

You can also use thick foam furniture from around the cabin, like top half of a mattress or a well-placed couch.

Without them you'll have no control over the amount of ambience. It could definitely be fine, but sometimes the ambience limits your ability to back the mics off the guitar without added noise. Mic placement is your friend with acoustic guitar, since proximity effect when you get close can make the thing extra boomy.

Blankets and such could be helpful for limiting reflection, but thicker materials are better since they also tame the low-end and guitar can be a b**ch on the low end.

Either way, inspiration for an amazing performance is always first priority, and it sounds like you have that on lock-down!

[edvdr76]

Originally Posted by Ihsahn1981

Hi.

Im planning to retreat to our family cabin for a week to record the acoustic guitars for an acoustic album. No city-noise and it will really set me in the mood.

I will be there by myself so I was wondering if anyone had any tips and tricks about how to go about the recording, setting up the mics for a good sound, workflow etc..

I have recorded acoustic guitars before but never done it all alone.
If anyone has done such a thing before I love to hear about your experience.
I really want to spend most of my time there recording and not fall into too many pitfalls.

One thing I have already done is to make project files with all the necessary click tracks and such. I have also printed out tab sheets for all the songs.


Any help is appreciated..



These are the mics I have available:

2x sE3 mics (matched pair)
2x Oktava MC012-01
1x sE 2200a
1x SM57
1x Rode NT1-A

Im just gonna bring them all I think.

Just keep it simple man. Put up a couple of moving blankets on mic stands to control the sound a bit. Put up an Octava and one of your big condensors and you're in business. Then just add a little tube compression and you'll be set.

[matt thomas]

I'd record more than one mic a a time, because you can't hear which position sounds best, that way you can chose afterwards

narco