State of the location recording business.

[RobAnderson]

I think the worst that can happen to a business owner is to think he is making art. A business provides a service that is either in demand or not. The businesses can shape markets but that is not easy to achieve. A pro can obviously make art but that does not bring in the money except for a handful of pros.

The best craftsman elevates his craft to an art form. It's the difference between meticulously hand-carved inlaid wood furniture and something you pick up at IKEA. Both are functional and can get the job done, but one is worth substantially more than the other - and it is NOT because of the cost of the raw materials. Maybe only connoisseurs can tell the difference, but the craftsman sure can.

I don't always succeed, but I hope to elevate my craft to an art form every time I go out. Even if folks can't hear the difference, many of them can see the care and the effort I put in, and I think that, more than anything else, is what keeps them coming back. I care as much about capturing their performance as they care about giving it.

I've heard some stuff done with Zoom recorders that sounds pretty good, but even the best examples don't have me emptying my suitcase just yet.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by richgilb

Most people I record with are enjoying the luxury of being able to get it right without watching the clock in a paid studio. And for me, that is a net gain. I've made music that would never have been made if someone had to be paid.

I think there is somewhat of a disconnect here. I am trying to live on what I make doing remote audio and video recordings and mastering. I do not have another source of income. It sounds like you and others that are so hot to do the DIY "thing" are doing this for fun or because this is your hobby or avocation. I think you would feel much different if you had to put a roof over your head and pay for groceries and gas for your car and now someone was basically doing what you did for most of your life for free or very low cost and you were not getting paid.

I don't know what you do for gainful employment but lets just say you are an electronics engineer getting paid $80.000 a year to do what you do and you have been doing it for 30+ years. And suppose some one came to your company and proposed doing what you are well paid to do for FREE or for $10K a year because they like to do electronic engineering. So your boss says "I like you and the work you do but I think it it is time you found a different job". How would you feel then????

There is a BIG difference between doing things you love for free and trying to make a living off doing those same things. My point in all of this is now everyone thinks they are a recording/mixing/mastering engineer although they don't take the time to learn anything about the audio/video craft and their only "purchase" is a cheap zoom recorder or cheap video camera. some cracked software and some pirated plugins.

I hope you see my point.

[Jim Williams]

If I had these Zoom thingy's 30 years ago, they would have been regarded as amazing devices. No one would be complaining about their sonics back then. Same with my 20 MP digital SLR. The Nikon F-2 was great, but not like this camera.

My lowly Alesis HD24XR would have been very well recieved in 1988. It kills any DASH recorder of that era.

The biggest difference (besides low cost amazing technologies) is the lack of professional payment for recording live. Now that everyman has and can afford this stuff, the desire to pay $$$ for a full-featured recording truck has also vanished.

[bafonso]

Originally Posted by RobAnderson

The best craftsman elevates his craft to an art form. It's the difference between meticulously hand-carved inlaid wood furniture and something you pick up at IKEA. Both are functional and can get the job done, but one is worth substantially more than the other - and it is NOT because of the cost of the raw materials. Maybe only connoisseurs can tell the difference, but the craftsman sure can.

My point was more along the lines that I think there's a lot of people that believe that just because they can meticulously hand-carve wood, they believe they are making art. Everyone can hand-carve, few reach a craftsmanship's level others are willing to pay for it. I agree with you that one should always aim for the best possible work regardless if it is perceived and accepted as an art form.

Unfortunately, crafter's perceptions do not pay the bills. This is why I was going on about that from a business point of view it is not really relevant.

[John Moran]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Now that everyman has and can afford this stuff, the desire to pay $$$ for a full-featured recording truck has also vanished.

as have the trucks.






MADI out of the FOH console to a laptop everynight on the higher scale gigs has had an influence too.

[Remoteness]

First of all, if you got into this business because you wanted to make money, that was your biggest mistake.

IMHO, you get into this business because you love your craft and care about what you're producing...

At least that's why I got into this industry; it had nothing to do with the money and everything to do with the art form and perfecting my skills in planning, making and executing that strong inner impulse I received in my late teens as a location recording engineer.

The craft of recording, engineering and (eventually) producing is what it's all about. That simple undertaking enhanced by the need to develop a higher level of skill and refinement is what it takes to be at the highest level one may get in this business of music.

If you have the talent and what it may take to take your gift to the next level and become that special someone that everyone wants, then so be it!

If it's only about the "bread" look for another job or consider diversifying your business plan.

It's that simple;-)

[xaMdaM]

AMEN Steve!

While my remote's have dropped off, all my gear is paid for, so it's not like I'm hurting tremendously... I do have studio income.

While my number of clients have dropped off a bit from a couple of years ago... the QUALITY of the client has improved... as has their expectation level that I'm going to deliver an improvement in the quality of their recorded product.

[philper]

I know that we are seeing a lot of people wanting to do music recording these days, but that seems to me to have always been the case. I heard a lot of these same arguments when the first Sony cassette Walkman recorders came out (and bought a Cabaret Voltaire LP that had been recorded from the audience at a live show on one, that sounded cool--like a live show). There seems to be a lot of hand wringing about how hard it is to do music recording as a business, and all I can think is A: that's always been the case and B: we should all go back and read Steve Remote's 2004 post about how he was going to change his company / MO in light of changes in the business he saw coming. One of the bitter truths about being a business is that you have to be realistic and clear-eyed about when what you are doing is no longer making sense as a business. Your choice at that point is to either bail, cash out what you can; or change what you are doing to adapt to the new situation. The latter, I have found, is not always possible. It seems like only a very few people who have posted on this thread really just do location music recording as their whole livelihood/business, and I think that that is true because there really isn't very much good-paying work in this field, for whatever reason you want to ascribe to that. So to stay in we have to do other stuff. Is this new? No--even in the 1960's I recall really good LA recording studio engineers telling me that the bands they were recording were only barely making the studio any money at all, but that they were doing that work really impressed the advertising guys who paid full rate all the time.

Oh yeah--how am I doing in July 2012? Ok--video audio is pretty good, music recording has been a bit thin in 2012 but is picking up, post has been very busy. In a different year these 3 would be in a different relationship, but that helps keep things interesting.

phil p

[John Suitcase]

There was an interesting article on the subject of 'good enough' a couple years back in Wired:

The Good Enough Revolution: When Cheap and Simple Is Just Fine

The gist was that the 'meat' of the tech business was in providing good, cheap solutions, rather than great, expensive solutions. The Zoom recorders and iPhone cameras seem to fit that pretty well.

In a sense, you can think of the location recording business in that same way. Most people want a 'good enough' recording of their performance. Good enough to listen to, good enough to maybe sell CDs to parents, families, etc. Good enough to be intelligible as a webcast, or podcast.

There's another element to the DIY thing, which is that people value things that they contribute to. Take IKEA. It's cheap, of course, it looks pretty good, but no one is going to say it's high quality furniture. But you build it yourself! People love to create, and will accept a much less 'quality' product if they feel they made it themselves.

That said, there is still a market for high end furniture, etc. And there is still a market for high end location recordings. But the economics probably aren't there for something like a college symphony to pay for a truly high end recording. And if you're selling a service that costs a few hundred dollars, you're in the market of the DIY guys, and you're going to lose.

I know there are a few guys who offer complete packages, for fund raising purposes, they do the recording, clear the rights to the material, print CDs, fulfill orders, etc. So for the church/symphony/school band/choir, it's a simple task to contract with someone and get a check for maybe a few thousand dollars.

What service are you selling, and what service is your client hoping to buy? If they don't match, try to adjust and offer what they really want. Unless they are well organized, and have everything in place, they probably don't just want a recording. They want a revenue stream, a product they can sell.

Do any of you guys offer a service like that? How has it gone?

For me, more and more of my business is mixing gigs for people who've recorded at home or another studio. I don't even get my stuff out for some sessions, I just take the band to a friend's studio. Studios are a dime a dozen, and you can get into some really nice ones so cheap, it's just easier!

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

First of all, if you got into this business because you wanted to make money, that was your biggest mistake.

IMHO, you get into this business because you love your craft and care about what you're producing...

At least that's why I got into this industry; it had nothing to do with the money and everything to do with the art form and perfecting my skills in planning, making and executing that strong inner impulse I received in my late teens as a location recording engineer.

The craft of recording, engineering and (eventually) producing is what it's all about. That simple undertaking enhanced by the need to develop a higher level of skill and refinement is what it takes to be at the highest level one may get in this business of music.

If you have the talent and what it may take to take your gift to the next level and become that special someone that everyone wants, then so be it!

If it's only about the "bread" look for another job or consider diversifying your business plan.

It's that simple;-)

I have been in Pro Audio since 1969. It has always been a fun gig and I have always been able to pay the bills and buy some new equipment when needed. Lately it is not as much fun and sometimes the money outflow seems at times to be larger than the money inflow. Some of this is just the economic slow down everyone on earth seems to be experiencing. Some of it is because a lot more people are doing things themselves instead of hiring it done. Some of it is because there are just more people doing audio and video recording. It all boils down to a gradual loss of income and with that loss some of the "fun" factor is being overshadowed by worries about what is coming next.

It is still fun and exhilarating to do a live show and will continue to be that way until I stop doing it all together.

If the "zoomers" are having fun GREAT! If the colleges and churches in this area want to provide total audio video support and charge accordingly then I guess they can do that since it is their concert halls and churches I am recording in. If the guy down the street wants to severely undercut my prices and can provide the same level of quality and service I say go for it. Maybe my game plan will have to change again as it has in the past.

Best of luck to you Steve and keep doing what you are so good at doing.

[boojum]

So many times we use photography as an analogy for recording. And I was just thinking of wedding photographs. Yeah, your buddy can take some good pics of your wedding. But they look like crap alongside of the work of a pro. Both are graphic representations of the event. But the pro was in the right place at the right time, got the angle and light right and excluded what was not needed in the picture. That and the pros better gear make the difference.

Hopefully for the pro recordists out there the general public and music groups will hear this difference more clearly than they are now. In the meantime they will have to get by with Zoom type stuff.

[WVUtubadude]

Things are going pretty good for me and my little operation.

Last year seemed like the year of the portable recorder, but the people that had those heard CDs that were done "right," so now things are starting to pick up for me. I've added channels to my rig, bought some nicer mics, and even worked on a few CD releases. Probably the coolest thing I've done this year was record from four stages simultaneously at a school's music festival.

[ajcdrum]

I used to have a video on my site that clearly showed the difference between:

1) No audio (a black screen - and no record of the event)
2) Zoom audio
3) My professional audio

4) Consumer video camera in the back of the hall - with camera audio
5) Consumer video camera in the back of the hall - with zoom audio

6) My multicamera video with multitrack audio

With the subject matter remaining constant, it was a pretty easy way to show what an upgrade you'll get with my services. I keep my rates high enough to be able to own all my gear outright (and make a nice living) but low enough that the upgrade in quality of product is a no-brainer for my clients. I haven't lost a gig to Zoomer yet.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

One can usually judge video or photographic quality pretty easily.

Audio seems to be harder for a lot of people to quantify.

We did something like what ajcdrum did only on a DVD. People were quick to point out video problems but not so quick with the audio. Some people even preferred the camera mic audio because it had a lot more reverb in it and they seemed to like a lot of reverb especially with choral material. Not everyone sees the same, not everyone hears the same. What is red to one person might be reddish orange to another If the oboist cannot hear his instrument clearly he will probably not like the recording, I try and keep the conductors and event managers very happy with our work and I keep in constant contact with them about what we could do better or what we are doing right.

I have learned over the years that you cannot please everyone every time. I still try to please the vast majority but sometimes even that is hard to do.

[xaMdaM]

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

It is still fun and exhilarating to do a live show and will continue to be that way until I stop doing it all together.

There's nothing like working a live show, is there?

That's why I got into this insanity in the first place.

I have been in Pro Audio since 1969. It has always been a fun gig and I have always been able to pay the bills and buy some new equipment when needed. Lately it is not as much fun and sometimes the money outflow seems at times to be larger than the money inflow. Some of this is just the economic slow down everyone on earth seems to be experiencing. Some of it is because a lot more people are doing things themselves instead of hiring it done. Some of it is because there are just more people doing audio and video recording. It all boils down to a gradual loss of income and with that loss some of the "fun" factor is being overshadowed by worries about what is coming next.

If the "zoomers" are having fun GREAT! If the colleges and churches in this area want to provide total audio video support and charge accordingly then I guess they can do that since it is their concert halls and churches I am recording in. If the guy down the street wants to severely undercut my prices and can provide the same level of quality and service I say go for it. Maybe my game plan will have to change again as it has in the past.

The "trick" to this profession, is to understand the two sides of the coin can exist in relative harmony... the live performance aspect: music as entertainment, and music as commodity.

The folks that understand commercial exchange vs art, are just able to support the "habit" of music as entertainment/art, by working with commercial music.

If I could just break even on art, I'd be tickled and VERY satisfied... but sadly, and thankfully (at the same time), I do have enough work to at least keep the lights on.

The trend is definitely swinging to multimedia. If you can't at least stream medium quality media, or feed that stream with decent quality audio, you're competing with the DIY crowd... and I like Lynn Fuston said; "There's never been a better time to be an amateur in audio."

[Roland]

This is all to a large extent true, however, I spent a couple of days with a friend of mine talking about all these sort of issues and as he pointed out, "Who cares?"

We spend so much time ruminating over this guitar sound or that guitar sound, this vocal a little louder or a bit quieter. He made the point that it was sometimes all too subtle for your general listener and that a certain amount of "roughness" was sometimes needed to make sure the audience "got it"!

He relayed a fun story about a major band he was involved with recording in the studio. The Lead singer was unhappy with the producer and insisted that he had his producer come in and remix the main track. His producer dutifully arrived, completely wiped down the first mix settings and started afresh. In the end they used the first half of one of the mixes and the second half of a totally different mix, my friend said as hard as it was to admit, once the track had been mastered he would defy anyone to tell where the change happened and the mix of mixes version made the album.

original post ajcdrum: I used to have a video on my site that clearly showed the difference between:

1) No audio (a black screen - and no record of the event)
2) Zoom audio
3) My professional audio

4) Consumer video camera in the back of the hall - with camera audio
5) Consumer video camera in the back of the hall - with zoom audio

6) My multicamera video with multitrack audio

With the subject matter remaining constant, it was a pretty easy way to show what an upgrade you'll get with my services. I keep my rates high enough to be able to own all my gear outright (and make a nice living) but low enough that the upgrade in quality of product is a no-brainer for my clients. I haven't lost a gig to Zoomer yet.

I get your point, however, having played with video as a hobby and having had several friends actively involved in film and TV work, the sad thing is that the latest pro-sumer cameras are brilliant these days. I've owned and used things like Sony Z1's that have been used as second camera's on a lot of TV shows, got rid of mine 2 years ago and have just bought a Panasonic GH2. The Panasonic, picture wise, is a whole level above and of the video camera's of say three or four years ago, even when compared with footage from the Arriflex Alexa (which is pretty much considered the state of the art) it doesn't look like a chump, it costs around $1,000.

In audio terms, some of these handheld recorders deliver very passable sound, not that I would be wanting to use them as an all in solution. I had a recording made with a pair of C1000's into a portable recorder through my hands this year and the sound was great, good players mind. Would a pair of $2,000 Scheopes made it sound any better, I couldn't say.

[hbphotoav]

I just "upgraded" my 2-camera (Sony Z1s) video system with a AJA Analog HD-to-HD/SDI converter and a AtomOS Samauri. Total cost for the upgrade: $2,200. First gig paid for half of that. The Z1 sends full-raster 1920x1080 Analog HD from the chip block out the RGB connector... it arrives at the 1440x1080 HDV spec (to tape, or out the FireWire port) via onboard processing. I did 4-1/2 hours of 1920x1080 ProRes HD files (Samurai also does all flavors of Avid DNxHD, and uncompressed... at 10GB/minute of storage), first time out, client was pleased as punch, no worries. AtomOS allows the use of 7200RPM/ 2.5" SATA drives (two 500GB Seagates cost me $79 each... I used just under 400GB on the first one for this job).

My next purchase will likely be a Black Magic Design HyperDeck Studio (for all the I/O, including balanced audio in/out) and a couple of SSDs. About another $3,000 if I can find another AJA device used. That's way less than I spent for my DSR-80 deck alone... about $4K in 1997 dollars... and the cameras should be good until 1920x1080 becomes passé... I should work that long...

While the Z1s aren't studio-grade, remote-controllable, massive cams, they are waaayy better than the tiny cam stuff... from low light performance to creep/crawl on the zoom switch, to having enough mass to allow a smooth, bump-free pan/tilt move on a properly set-up fluid head.

Works for me.

HB

[recordinghopkins]

Whew!

I'm glad I found and bumped this thread.

So many good and valid points of view here.

Originally Posted by ajcdrum

I used to have a video on my site...

Brilliant idea.

Originally Posted by John Moran

MADI out of the FOH console to a laptop everynight on the higher scale gigs has had an influence too.

Indeed. Digital consoles have served the average pony tailin', cigarette smokin', sweatin', swearin' leatherneck FOH engineer a large slice of the remote recording pie. (All terms of endearment, I promise!)
What this leaves to the working remote pro to accomplish is approaching a gig with the recording in mind, and working with the house to find reasonable compromises for mic choice, placement, crowd mic'ing, level watching, and generally overseeing the capture to ensure that it's really going to be a pro level job, not just a convenient way to fill a hard drive.
More than a few venues in my area have some way to multitrack a show, but it's my attention to detail and added assistance to ensure that both the recording and the show come off well is what keeps my phone ringing. I'm not just a recording engineer, I'm stage side hands on deck when there's a problem that needs solving. FOH guys love it when they don't have to leave the pit during set changes, too. Nevermind the redundant devices. If it's an important show, say, a band's 10 year celebration or a graduate university recital, would you trust the joeco on the FOH inserts to get the job done? Nope, you'd hire someone that can be held responsible for ensuring that everything goes off without a hitch. Especially if your label wants to release the set as another album or you've got family on the other side of the country that can't be there for your big day.

Originally Posted by xaMdaM

There's nothing like working a live show, is there?

That's why I got into this insanity in the first place.

And there it is.

[king2070lplaya]

HB: thanks for that insight man, the Z1 is the path I'm about to be taking, but feasible implementation has been a concern as it is quite an investment getting out of the mini-cam game. This is a nice little guide to "how to get it done right."

[Thomas W. Bethe]

We had a situation recently where a client wanted a conductor camera for the youth symphony concert. We only have two cameras which we use in the auditorium. I told the client that we would have to rent an additional camera and we would have to charge for the rental. The client went ballistic and said that the college, where we were recording, ALWAYS provided as many cameras as they needed without extra charges. Not being the "college" with unlimited budgets I said I could not do it for free. They finally decided not to use the conductor camera.

We recently got a request from a student to do a recital recording. We normally do recitals with one camera and possibly two if the situation warrants the extra camera. We also provide a complete concert audio recording setup. This student asked for FIVE cameras and then told us she would not pay more than $200.00 for the recording and editing. I passed on her recital recording. I was told a couple of students from the college did the recording and post for her for a case of beer and they used the shotgun mics on the cameras for the audio.

Two years ago I was hired to do an audio recording of a harpsichord for a Senior Recital. I showed up at the venue and was told there would be a student camera crew doing the video. They wanted an audio feed. They had three JVC cameras and three Lowell lighting packs they had borrowed from the college. I asked them what camera would be the one the wanted the feed for and was told they wanted stereo feeds to all three cameras. I did not have enough cables or a splitter to do the feeds. They were somewhat upset. I simply smiled and said that normally this type of requests is made known before the concert and not at the concert. I offered to give them a 48 kHZ master of the complete concert audio so they could sync it up with the video. That seemed to placate them.

My point in bringing this up is that on location recording client's expectations are rising due to what they see on TV and at the same time they want to spend the same or less than they have spent in the past. One of our choral conductors wanted us to do something similar to what they do in England for the "Ceremony of Carols" at the Christmas service in the cathedral. She sent me a YouTube link. No microphones visible and at least a five camera shoot with camera people on the stage. Only she wanted to do this with two cameras and no cameras or microphones on the stage. I guess she doesn't understand that the cathedral shoot is rehearsed for days and that there is a large crew of professional camera people who work on the show and have done so for years. Nice idea but hard to pull off with no rehearsals in the hall except for the day of the concert and a we don't have the resources of the BBC to pull it all off. Expectation from clients is at 150% reality of what we can provide is at 100% and the level at which they want to pay 1/2 half of what we are currently charging.

Business is getting a lot harder lately.

[xaMdaM]

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

We had a situation recently where a client wanted a conductor camera .... They finally decided not to use the conductor camera.

We recently got a request from a student to do a recital recording. ..... a couple of students from the college did the recording and post for her for a case of beer and they used the shotgun mics on the cameras for the audio.

Two years ago I was hired to do an audio recording of a harpsichord for a Senior Recital. ....... I offered to give them a 48 kHZ master of the complete concert audio so they could sync it up with the video. That seemed to placate them.

My point in bringing this up is that on location recording client's expectations are rising due to what they see on TV and at the same time they want to spend the same or less than they have spent in the past.

Expectation from clients is at 150% reality of what we can provide is at 100% and the level at which they want to pay 1/2 half of what we are currently charging.

Business is getting a lot harder lately.

I hear ya' Thomas... and it IS sad that so many folks think that this technology stuff is as easy as a video game and that there are no real standards to which professionals are expected to conform... and "we" see so many "good enough" end products out there, that really aren't good enough, not just because of the technology, but because the engineering skills are not inherent in the majority of those trying to "sell" their services.

I used to be seriously disappointed in what these "low ball" clients expected they would get for nothing. Now I expect it, and I have to honestly tell them that my time and my life are worth more to me than what paltry sum they are offering, and ask them if they would work for that amount. Every single time, they answered that they wouldn't... and either walked away having real expectations, or they've hired me.

[BRH]

Thomas.. Ha-Ha.
Consider all that is going on right now with digital cameras.. a good picture relatively cheap and easy to edit.
Sort of reminds me of the early 80s when digital audio hit.
My mind remembers one orchestra job at a church I did...
A 2 mic direct to reel to reel .. neumanm mics I think... maybe outboard preamp and copied to cassette for them afterward.
Next concert they didn't call me.. so I showed up before show time and had a look-see.
Apparently one of the church members and his son were doing the recording. I spoke to the conductor and with a 'sparkle in his eye' proclaimed they were making a 'Digital Recording'! I said "That's Great".. looked it over ... was maybe eight SM57s on stands placed throughout the orchestra into Teac mixer feeding Tascam DAT.
Digital buzz word and I lost a job.
Now you need cameras too? And there aint no way to get good audio with multiple cams when the customer says "I don't wanna see any microphones" and they don't want to pay.

[talbe1019]

Well, sadly I am going to fold my operation. It started as a hobby and was financed by a full time job. I was let go of my full time job so I tried to make a go of recording as a primary job. Built up the rig to 48 tracks of ATI pre's and redundant recorders and just cannot get enough work to justify keeping all of my stuff. It sucks, but I need a new roof anyway.

[Jim Williams]

I see much of this work being done by charity down the road. So many have gear and want to do it. I've done it. Charity work makes you feel better than getting paid.

Some with the means do that just out of goodness in their hearts. Not everyone gets paid, everytime. I'm fine with that too.

Then again, it's not much of a business anymore.

[Roland]

The Reality is that location recording isn't getting cheaper. Sure you can buy passable microphones, reasonable mic amps/AD conversion and software too run on a computer, however, the cost of petrol and the cost of living being what it is now has meant that the labour and travelling side is by far the largest expense, this alone pushes up minimum charges.

Around London, freelance engineers (I'm talking PA wise, but it's not necessarily that different for recording) were getting paid about £125 a day 2 years ago, rates are now closer to £200 + a day, unskilled help is now over £100 a day for cash. Pretty much cost are either free, college kids using universities gear or amateur with a couple of mics, zoom type recorder or laptop, or £300 - £500 for small pro operator with own kit. Those who know the true value and respect the service they are getting pay, the others just will use whatever they can get for nothing.

[John Moran]

Originally Posted by recordinghopkins

What this leaves to the working remote pro to accomplish is approaching a gig with the recording in mind, and working with the house to find reasonable compromises for mic choice, placement, crowd mic'ing, level watching, and generally overseeing the capture to ensure that it's really going to be a pro level job, not just a convenient way to fill a hard drive.

David Hewitt summed it up years ago to basically what you are selling with a truck is real estate. In the big league concerts, all the above is well taken care of already and it's a small bit of augmentation of the stage setup and additional house mics if anything. The last thing a major tour wants is someone coming in and screwing with their setup. Lots of FOH positions are setting up M/S pair for crowd response and it works quite well. Two more mic inputs on a major show is bupkis to achieve.

It's more like the above comment at the club level but then I'm not too keen on subjecting my really good mics to a club environment. Classical/liturgical work is generally more pristine and zero club vibe so it's a different animal entirely and benefits from the detail work. There is also little to no reinforcement so the micing is solely for capture in those sorts of gigs.

[John Moran]

Originally Posted by Roland

The Reality is that location recording isn't getting cheaper. Sure you can buy passable microphones, reasonable mic amps/AD conversion and software too run on a computer, however, the cost of petrol and the cost of living being what it is now has meant that the labour and travelling side is by far the largest expense, this alone pushes up minimum charges.

When mileage charges come to more than the day rate, it's a bit of a killer for having a truck cover a lot of ground in most cases. Factor in per diem and lodging and the base cost of the rig can become less than half the cost on big runs, at least in the States. That pushes it to regional players or simply one more rack crate to go with the show. One more crate is no big deal to a full on touring system that has several semis carrying the show.

[Jim Williams]

Like Steve said, portibility has killed off the need for a truck. I remember rolling 500lb 24 tracks off those truck ramps, it's all pretty small now. Can you imagine a Frank Zappa tour with those things getting beat up and still having to record EVERY show? PITA. Frank never used a truck, he used muscle.

I like recording in clubs these days. Gone are the smokers that used to mess up my condensor capsules. All have have left to deal with are some assholes and all that body sweat in the air, the smoke smelled better.

Does body sweat leave a film on a capsule? Enquiring minds want to know.

[recordinghopkins]

Originally Posted by John Moran

David Hewitt summed it up years ago to basically what you are selling with a truck is real estate. In the big league concerts, all the above is well taken care of already and it's a small bit of augmentation of the stage setup and additional house mics if anything. The last thing a major tour wants is someone coming in and screwing with their setup. Lots of FOH positions are setting up M/S pair for crowd response and it works quite well. Two more mic inputs on a major show is bupkis to achieve.

It's more like the above comment at the club level but then I'm not too keen on subjecting my really good mics to a club environment. Classical/liturgical work is generally more pristine and zero club vibe so it's a different animal entirely and benefits from the detail work. There is also little to no reinforcement so the micing is solely for capture in those sorts of gigs.

That's absolutely correct. The big tours would have no trouble with these tasks, but what I didn't make clear is that I was referring to when venues have MADI, ADAT, or FW out of their digital mixer, or take one click to some kind of an interface array. This is usually just a house engineer that has made this happen for his own amusement or for the convenience of the artist or maybe make a couple of bucks. His focus is still going to have to remain on reinforcement, as that's his actual job - what comes out of the speakers and how it's going to sound in this venue not what makes it to disk. Sure, he can watch levels and listen to what sound check captured before showtime and make some small adjustments, but the dedicated recording engineer approaches the gig from the other end - what's it gonna sound like in a different venue. That's still a very useful service, in addition to having another set of skilled hands on board for your show.
There should be no animosity between PA crew and Remote crew over mic suggestions or placement compromises unless the remote pro didn't do his or her job well enough to coordinate these needs ahead of time, no matter how big the gig. Major tours don't hire on a whim, and it's not like some local schmo is just dropping in to record their gig with no notice as they pass through town, demanding that they use all different mics and change up what they have been working with for the whole tour.

[John Moran]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Frank never used a truck, he used muscle.

mmmm, not exactly.

Frank owned his own truck. I've been in it and it was featured in trade advertising for the submixers he had on board.