Poor man's Sennheiser MKH800/ DPA4011/ Schoeps MK21

[tone]

Can anyone suggest mics that have similar qualities to these but are not quite so expensive. For classical recording, strings and piano.

Thanks.

[staudio]

Neumann KM series is slightly cheaper and are good quality mics.

[tsvisser]

Sennheiser MKH 8000 series mics are much cheaper and have lots of very desireable qualities. On a more strict budget, AKG blue line BL or the even cheaper SE line are respectable, but for a little more than 2k you can get a pair of MKH 8040 which you would not need to upgrade for a very long time, if ever.

[softwareguy]

Audio Upgrades modded AKG 460's.

[videoteque]

Keep'em coming!!!

We are listening!!!

[mljung]

Good question!

I have a Beyerdynamics mc930 stereo-set. They're very good for some sources. A little hyped in the 10-12 kHz range. I wouldn't recommend them for close-up recordings, but they do a lot of things very well.
Milab DC-196 are fine 'balanced' microphones that doesn't have the "peakiness" of many "pop" microphones. Moreover they sound pretty good in omni and fig-8 as well, which makes them very versatile. But they're not exactly cheap.
MK-103 from Oktava are quite nice [and balanced] but I had to remove the foam behind the grille to make them 'sing'.
And what about M-Audios Pulsar II. Haven't heard them but there has been good reviews and shoot-outs that makes me think they're are good 'balanced' microphones and they're very affordable!

If you have the money I'm sure MKH 8040 is a top contender, but I wouldn't call them "poor man's"...!

[John Willett]

The MKH 800 is a switchable-pattern mic. of very high quality that is not duplicated by any other mic.

The MKH 8000 series are much cheaper and share a lot of the characteristics of the MKH 800, but are single-pattern only.

A matched pair of the MKH 8000 series is about half the price of a single MKH 800.

[d_fu]

Beyerdynamic MC 930

[MATTI]

MBHO have something to offer also

Matti

[jnorman]

i have owned pairs of DPA 4011s, schoeps cmc64s, a variety of neumanns, etc, and the closest i have ever seen in an affordable mic is the AKG C480/ck61. nearly interchangeable with the 4011s. you can often find a used pair for under $1K. for even less, the mc930s and the AT4051s are quite good. if you can find them, the AT4049s are really nice, as is the ck62 on C460/480.

i have not used the new little DPA 4090/4091, but they may be worth a look.

[aaron_in_sf]

How about a pair of Rode NT2000s?

Variable pattern, very very quiet, under $1500 a pair. :)

[tone]

Thanks to everyone for the info.
Does anyone else have suggestions?

[squeegybug]

I'll join in on the MKH8040. These have the response I had always been looking for, and not just for orchestral instruments. I am not even remotely interested in $choep$ or DPA mics anymore.

Steve

[tsvisser]

Me neither, but I need to know for sure that there will be a figure-8 in the series before I can commit to buying the full set that I will need.

Of the mics listed above, only the AKG C480 based capsule system would tempt me any if the MKH8000 series were over budget.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by tsvisser

Me neither, but I need to know for sure that there will be a figure-8 in the series before I can commit to buying the full set that I will need.

There will be a fig-8 in the MKH 8000 range - just no date yet. A fig-8 *is* the most difficult pattern to design well.

Next to come will be the MZD 8000 digital module later this year.

[Remoteness]

IMO, you cannot beat the sound quality of the MKH8000 series microphones at any price...

It's nice to know that they are extremely reasonable in price.

[Jim vanBergen]

Lots of great comments and suggestions.

In twenty years of demoing, testing, and buying mics for symphonic & orchestral use as well as Jazz, R&B, and Rock, I found that I really got what I paid for. I bought dozens of really great mid-line mics until I could afford my top-shelf mics...and wished I had saved for the top shelf mics in the first place. Sennheiser, Neumann, Gefell, Schoeps, DPA - when it comes to clarity and accurate representation, these mics are WORTH waiting for when you need a classical or accurate representation of a source. The 8000 series sounds phenomenal, different but astonishing like the Schoeps and DPA can be, and these mics offer the best value in the marketplace without a doubt!!!

There are so many lead vocal choices --and most of these mics are used for a colored vocal at some level-- I don't think the same position applies to the Telefunken 47, Neumann U47, or C12 for vocal representation when there are so many great LDC mics for lead vox (though I went the UM57 route, and am VERY happy with it.)

Hope this helps!

[ABBA]

Much rave regarding these MKH 8000 but I've found little or no reviews in magazines or any audio tests when properly compared to DPA, Schoeps etc...

And I still have not got a reply from anyone regarding the noise.
Are the MKH 8000 more silent than DPA, Schoeps etc?
(I don't mean what the specifications say, I mean what you can actually hear)

Anyone?

Have a nice day.

[ABBA]

By the way - I also like really the AKG 480 alot but I'm too scared to own them myself.
I've used them several times and very often they just stop working.
It has happened to me and several of my recording friends using different 480s.

I've asked AKG about this but their reply was something like: they are just as reliable as other mics.
Which is BS.

[mljung]

One mic that I know belongs here is the Shure KSM 141. Both Cardioid and Omni, supposed to be very good.
I think it was Plush who mentioned it was actually modeled after Schoeps, but the price is less than half.

Haven't tried them myself, but heard a lot of good things about them and I'm sure they deserve to be on this list.

If anyone have compared Schoeps and KSM 141 maybe they could chime in!?

About the Røde NT2000 mentioned by aaron_in_sf. I have them. You're right they are very very quiet, and can be quite good for different sources. But they're LDC, heavy microphones and doesn't have as smooth a response as the other microphones in this thread. They're different creatures.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by ABBA

Much rave regarding these MKH 8000 but I've found little or no reviews in magazines or any audio tests when properly compared to DPA, Schoeps etc...

And I still have not got a reply from anyone regarding the noise.
Are the MKH 8000 more silent than DPA, Schoeps etc?
(I don't mean what the specifications say, I mean what you can actually hear)

Review of the MKH 8040 in Line Up (UK broadcast magazine) is HERE (bottom article - downlosad yje 2-page pdf). This mak help.

And, yes, they are quiet - and RF condensers (like the MKH) have inherently lower noise, especially at the bottom end, than standard AF condenser mics.

[Shadow_7]

I'd love to have a pair of 8040s myself. In the meantime I'm making due with a used pair of Avenson STO-2's and a used Korg MR-1000 for about the price of one new 8040 microphone.

Not quite the same, but good. Little to no low end rumble, and difficult to translate the spoken word, if spoken when facing away from the mics. But it's nice to hear recorded instruments that sound like the source instrument. And my voice as I perceive it to sound.

[JEGG]

I own several MKH mics-the old series. And I like them very much.

If you want mics that sound like them, I suggest you try the Oktava MC 012's, all three capsules.

There are many different aspects to sound. To me, the Oktavas come very close because they produce a "round sound." So do the MKH mic's. They don't scream: "I'm a mic capsule." They aren't hard.

The KM180 series are good mics, but they don't sound like the MKH mics. They are harder sounding.

In terms of frequency response, the Oktavas are not a direct match. The cardioid has a small HF lift, but it doesn't sound obvious. The omni capsule also has an even more subtle lift-it has a slight edge compared to the MKH20-but again-much closer than the Neumann KM 180's.

The hypercardioid capsule is absolutely flat and first rate. Worth noting is that the cardioid and hypercardioid caps do have the the extended low end of the Sennheisers.

My time with the Shure 141 has been very limited. I do think the the omni position sounds a great deal like the Sennheiser MKH20-again, a round sound with a full fundamental. The cardioid position doesn't sound like any of the MKH mics. The 141 sounds "fast," like the new Sennheisers.

I've spent too little time with the MC930, but it, too, is worth a listen. It has a nice round fundamental that is close to the MKH 40.

My standard is the old MKH series, and I have not used the new series. The new cardioid is a touch brighter and noticeably faster than the old. The Oktavas mentioned are "slow" mics, at least without the currently available "upgrades." That's not necessarily bad. The problem with Oktava is that everyone's capsules seem to sound different. No amount of electronic upgrades will fix that.

So-for the cardioid, you should look at the MC930 and the Oktava cardioid. For the omni, the omni position Shure 141 or the Oktava omni.

[ABBA]

John Willet:

Review of the MKH 8040 in Line Up (UK broadcast magazine) is HERE (bottom article - downlosad yje 2-page pdf). This mak help.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Regards ABBA

[ABBA]

I also recommend Oktava 012 matched pair.
For the price they are amazing.
I've compared them to alot of SD mics under the 1500 $ range.
I find them a bit noisy though...

Does anyone know how much the noise is reduced with the Mod?

ABBA

[mljung]

I think JEGG summed a lot of things up about the SDC's

I have the MK012 stereo-set with all three capsules joly-modded.
I agree that the hyper is very good. I have a little more doubt about the omni, but I know many have good experiences.
The reason why I mentioned the MK-103 cardioid capsule-head for the MK012 body's is because it has some of the same smoothness as the hyper does. But as mentioned in my earlier post, the foam [and extra steel-mesh] have to be removed to make it sound this smooth. For my use I'll take it over the cardioid supplied in the MK-012 set.

Noise figures in the Joly-modded versions are improved, making them comparable to other typical good sdc's - after the mod I don't think any will call them noisy.

I agree that the MC-930 is rounder than the KM-184. But it's still a little hard in the hi-freq lift above 10kHz.
For this reason I wouldn't use them close-up for instruments with a lot of info in that region. So no drum OH or steel string strumming for me. Some say it can easily be EQ'ed out, but I don't think it's just a question of level, it tends to sound a little unnatural up there [maybe it's that strange Beyer 'mesh' in front of the capsule!?] That said everything below that area sounds wonderful. Another difference is that MC-930 has a tighter pattern than MK-184.

Overall I'd say, regarding the cardioids SDC mentioned here, that MC-930 lies somewhere between the round Oktava and the somewhat hard KM-184

[Sonic Lush]

Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen

...I bought dozens of really great mid-line mics until I could afford my top-shelf mics...and wished I had saved for the top shelf mics in the first place...

like my crazy old boss used to cackle:

CHEAP IS EXPENSIVE AND EXPENSIVE IS CHEAP!!!!

[mljung]

Originally Posted by Sonic Lush

like my crazy old boss used to cackle:

CHEAP IS EXPENSIVE AND EXPENSIVE IS CHEAP!!!!

But where is the border between mid-line and top shelf. Even the most expensive microphones have their con's.
Is a DPA 4006 always better than a KSM 141..? I don't believe so.

It's not as easy as just buying the most expensive you can get!

[Remoteness]

Look at it this way, all gear (and its quality level) will come and go, but...

Our ears must always stay constant with regard to the best sound production value you can derive from the gear you're utilizing.

[mljung]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

Look at it this way, all gear (and its quality level) will come and go, but...

Our ears must always stay constant with regard to the best sound production value you can derive from the gear you're utilizing.

exactly