demolition recording

[otobianki74]

first time poster in this particular gs forum, greetings.

I have a project coming up that involves field recording of a small demolition of a building. I have some general concerns and I'm looking for some advice from someone who has experience in this sort of situation.

first off, some general info would be nice: are there specific microphone types and models for outside location recording? any other gear that could be useful, specifically for high volume sound sources?

I am thinking of mounting some mics inside the building that will be knocked down. I was thinking of using cheap PZM mics since they will most likely be lost in the wreckage. any thoughts or advice concerning mic placement and or type? I am also thinking of sticking a mic on the wrecking ball itself... an open to ideas.

to note, there will be no explosions, rather falling and crumbling brick.

any other information or tips that could be useful would be much appreciated.

thanks!

oto

[guitarwes]

No real experience with this, but use a camera instead of a mic on the wrecking ball!!

A bunch of cheap, high-spl mics should work fine. Also consider using shotgun mics outside, pointing at the bulldozer engines, vulgar crew, crumbling remains, etc.

Sounds like an interesting project and alot of fun. How many channels do you have to work with?

[otobianki74]

cool... thanks for the advice.

indeed, gonna be fun/interesting!

I think I'll have at minimum 16 channels, possibly double (but doubt that is needed).

oto

[Jay Kahrs]

I gotta split right now... but a few years ago I went down to Asbury Park for the implosion of that huge unfinished apt. complex that had been hanging over Ocean Ave for a decade and having never seen an implosion before, it was quite loud, and quite fast! Big clouds of smoke, really dust... fine debris were every where.

I'd imagine that's much easier to capture then crumbling brick...

Have you spoken to the company or crew that will be doing the work? Might want to talk with them and find out what the plan is... which corner or side of the building they're going to start with... the whole procedure.

Sounds like a cool project.

I really dig urban decay...

[Dustin Moore]

I feel like having a good limiter and a set of mics
with good bass response might be more valuable than
lots of tracks or having mics that get destroyed during the event.

Caveat: My advice is probably worse than none as I'm still
trying to figure out how to get a good explosion sound
down on tape and I'm just another hobbyist.

At any rate, I'm pretty sure that a good fx-grade limiting circuit like
a Fostex FR-2 or an Apogee Mini-Me with the switches set to fast
limiting would be your best asset. If you have your gain set to
record the event without peaking your probably going to miss the
people shouting and the random debris sounds that fill out the picture.

The mic will hear all of these (don't worry about the SPL rating of
the mic) but you won't record them unless your gain is high enough
and this means you need a sweet limiter stepping up
to manage the big sounds.

Charles Maynes on this board swears by the limiters in an FR-2 and
I've had decent success with the Apogee. I know that the limiter
in the Apogee sounds much better than the limiter in a Sound Devices
702 if you are recording a massive thump. Likewise for the FR-2.

I hope someone who does this professionally (and successfully) chimes
in but if it were me I'd probably get an omni Oktava MC-012 pair as
close as I could without being in danger of the mic or cable being damaged
and feed that into the best FX-type limiter I had.

[otobianki74]

thanks for the responses guys, this is all helpful.

I do have a bit of a budget for this project, so losing a few mics (cheap) and cables is going to be ok.

the demolition is not a huge skyscraper by any means, it's probably a 3-4 story old brick building which will be knocked down one area at a time by a bulldozer with a wrecking ball at the end. since the building won't fall all at once, having multiple mics in different areas would work.. the destruction will be a process.

thanks again, looking for more feedback.

oto

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by Dustin Moore

I feel like having a good limiter and a set of mics
with good bass response might be more valuable than
lots of tracks or having mics that get destroyed during the event.

Caveat: My advice is probably worse than none as I'm still
trying to figure out how to get a good explosion sound
down on tape and I'm just another hobbyist.

At any rate, I'm pretty sure that a good fx-grade limiting circuit like
a Fostex FR-2 or an Apogee Mini-Me with the switches set to fast
limiting would be your best asset. If you have your gain set to
record the event without peaking your probably going to miss the
people shouting and the random debris sounds that fill out the picture.

The mic will hear all of these (don't worry about the SPL rating of
the mic) but you won't record them unless your gain is high enough
and this means you need a sweet limiter stepping up
to manage the big sounds.

Charles Maynes on this board swears by the limiters in an FR-2 and
I've had decent success with the Apogee. I know that the limiter
in the Apogee sounds much better than the limiter in a Sound Devices
702 if you are recording a massive thump. Likewise for the FR-2.

I hope someone who does this professionally (and successfully) chimes
in but if it were me I'd probably get an omni Oktava MC-012 pair as
close as I could without being in danger of the mic or cable being damaged
and feed that into the best FX-type limiter I had.

Hi Dustin-


The Oktavas should be good- I wouldnt get too close to the destruction, especially if you cant control things much (which is likely-)

The tradeoff that you will fight is that good low end requires some distance. you might try to get some close up mics and some mid field mics (which are about 60 ft away or so)- Also if possible you might try to boom pole some of the specific destruction if safety allows for it-

This is truly a place where the Sennheiser MKH 416 shines....


good luck!

[otobianki74]

Everyone,

Thank you for the advice so far. I was wondering specifically what mic type and models could be suggested that are considered "high SPL mics?" Also, are there any specific shotgun mics that can be suggested since I've never used one before?

Thanks

Oto

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by otobianki74

Everyone,

Thank you for the advice so far. I was wondering specifically what mic type and models could be suggested that are considered "high SPL mics?" Also, are there any specific shotgun mics that can be suggested since I've never used one before?

Thanks

Oto

on those fronts- my favorite "high SPL" mic is the SM57.... which I use all the time...

and my favorite shotgun mic is the Sennheiser MKH 416. the 816 is good too, but I will use the 416 if possible.

[Roc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by otobianki74

Everyone,

Thank you for the advice so far. I was wondering specifically what mic type and models could be suggested that are considered "high SPL mics?" Also, are there any specific shotgun mics that can be suggested since I've never used one before?

Thanks

Oto

Crowley and Tripp "eL Diablo" Ribbon microphone.........

146 DB SPL @ ALL BANDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd also check out the Josephson C617 with MT Gefell MK221 Omni Capsule.
You won't be disappointed........Although this ones not indestructible; it just goes up to 40K and is fast as hell!!!!! Its perfect for this application.

[guitarwes]

If you're going to destroy them, why not opt for the $10 value package mics from musiciansfriend?

For shotguns... I'd like to know good ones to use also. I thought of them because of their extremely tight pickup pattern. You can aim from a safe distance and still get a usable sound. Television uses them all the time.

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell

Crowley and Tripp "eL Diablo" Ribbon microphone.........

146 DB SPL @ ALL BANDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd also check out the Josephson C617 with MT Gefell MK221 Omni Capsule.
You won't be disappointed........Although this ones not indestructible; it just goes up to 40K and is fast as hell!!!!! Its perfect for this application.

the SM57 does this sort of stuff really well- I can speak with experience on this... it passes sound up above 20khz as well...

It is also disposable, which is always a parameter for a sound effects mic...
The mics are going to be in a very dusty setting, and I have lost more mics to contamination that direct destruction, though that has happened too... to put a nice mic out there for this is not very responsible when you consider that the output will be only marginally better if at all....
As to the shotgun mics- they are not magic... but they do have better reach than non-shotgun mics- If you are looking for distant mics with crazy focus, you would need to go with a parabolic collector- which will have a fairly pinched sound to it.... or a lazer mic possibly- but those are usually only used for surveillance applications

Other possiblities might be contact mics or even seismic sensors, though I have never been impressed by their output for FX