vocal channelstrip for live sound

[cebolao]

i'm looking for a channelstrip device for live vocal (concerts).

the artist is a female singer.

i need a nice pre, great eq and compressor. de-esser would be nice. all in one box would be perfect.

i think it should be tube - free (lots of travelling), the eq should have adjustable Q, etc.

any help will be appreciated.

[Remoteness]

An ATI Pro6 would be an excellent choice if you can find them.
They have been discontinued for some time now.

[muziekschuur]

The TC-electronics CORRECT. Nice gadget. Not too expensive.

Muziekschuur

[huub]

Channel Strip Buyer's Guide

of these, the focusrite voicemaster is affordable and sounds pretty nice really.. Eq is fairly limited, but has one sweepable band for proximity compensation (for example).

[Jim vanBergen]

I own the Langevin (no adjustable Q and the EQ is rudimentary but quite good) and have used the ART, the Millenia, and the Avalon but my preferred channel strips are the VoxBox (yes,m it's tube, and it tours quite nicely thank you in a shock rack) and the Focusrite ISA (model 430 I think).

Having gone thru all that, a great console channel like a Midas H3000 with a killer pre and EQ plus a compressor is what you really want. I have done this several times with API pre/EQ plus a Drawmer or Distressor comp, and have used Daking pre/EQ + Daking comps for 2 RU of killer channel.

If it were me looking for something non-tube and needing it today, I'd probably look closely at the (1) Focusrite 430, (2) a Portico Pre/three band EQ with a Portico comp, (3) SSL "lunchbox" combo, (4) API lunchbox. And I'd probably make my decision based on the voice in question, the type of music, and the gear I know I would not be able to find on the road- like my mics, the SSL G384, Summit tube EQ, and Purple MC60 I carry with me for FOH duties.

Hope this helps!

JvB

[MichaelPatrick]

Presonus Eureka and Aphex 230 are not expensive and have lots of goodies to dial up a decent sound. The 230 has one tube but it's a pretty rugged unit.

The Eureka has a more adjustable compressor. Aphex 230 dynamics are "automatic" and, being designed for spoken voice, may not work well for singers, but the parametric midrange EQ, a de-esser and sonic enhancement gadgets are interesting and may be just the thing.

[nickynicknick]

A very good vocal strip for live is the Avalon 737...in fact...I find this is the best application for these units...they suit a live vocal situation perfectly for me...been using two at FOH for years....the comp works great here, tube pre and a good eq..inserted over a group or two....rent one of these and try it.... I only run vox through these. Gtrs, drums, bass don't work for me here....btw don't bother with focusrite for live....tried to make red and platinum work live for three tours....it doesn't.

Nick

[Jim vanBergen]

Originally Posted by nickynicknick

btw don't bother with focusrite for live....tried to make red and platinum work live for three tours....it doesn't.

Nick

Nick, I find it interesting you say this- I think the Red compressor was one of their finest products ever, and works great studio or live. The 430 ISA (Blue Line) is far above anything from the 'platinum' line (shudder -I agree about the platinum, for certain!), you should try the Blue line out before you say don't bother. I respect your opinion- it still might not work for someone, but I know it works for many people who want a great studio sound for live work, especially for those looking for a clean, pure signal path.

As always, YMMV, and what works for one engineer doesn't for another- part of the great strengths of Gearslutz. I've seen guys using the JoeMeek channel on low buget tours for the money channel and while I wouldn't buy one myself (not sure why not, just a vibe thing I guess, or maybe just a lack of need) it sounded good when I heard them.

I think the 737 has fewer followers than in recent years, but agree the Avalon & Millenia line are pretty flexible, good sounding units for this application. I know someone who swears by the 737 for bass tracks live... but it's not me.

[jasonraboin]

I currently use an A designs Pacifica -> Speck ASC-T EQ -> DBX 162SL. I love the chain but if I were starting over I would look at the Neve Portico range. You can get a mic pre eq in a half rack and an eq in a half rack, mount them together and have a serious channel strip in a single rack space. For about the same money you could get a Midas XL42 and a Drawmer 1968 or similar comp and have two very good channels.

[soundpilot]

Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen

I own the Langevin (no adjustable Q and the EQ is rudimentary but quite good) and have used the ART, the Millenia, and the Avalon but my preferred channel strips are the VoxBox (yes,m it's tube, and it tours quite nicely thank you in a shock rack) and the Focusrite ISA (model 430 I think).

Having gone thru all that, a great console channel like a Midas H3000 with a killer pre and EQ plus a compressor is what you really want. I have done this several times with API pre/EQ plus a Drawmer or Distressor comp, and have used Daking pre/EQ + Daking comps for 2 RU of killer channel.

If it were me looking for something non-tube and needing it today, I'd probably look closely at the (1) Focusrite 430, (2) a Portico Pre/three band EQ with a Portico comp, (3) SSL "lunchbox" combo, (4) API lunchbox. And I'd probably make my decision based on the voice in question, the type of music, and the gear I know I would not be able to find on the road- like my mics, the SSL G384, Summit tube EQ, and Purple MC60 I carry with me for FOH duties.

Hope this helps!

JvB

Hey, Jim... I'm about to take some very nice tube gear on the road, a Fearn and maybe a Pendulum... what kind of shockmount rack do you have for sensitive gear?

To the original poster:

I think if someone didn't have a lot of money.. a $600 or even $200 joemeek strip would probably be better than the "voicemaster" I heard. I've never heard a newer q design meeks, but the older Meeks from the 90s didn't mangle the tone in an unflattering way like a voicemaster did. I'm sure someone like Jim Williams could make either sound a world better, though, so I'm talking about un-modded only. Maybe the voicemaster kicks serious ass once modified...

Another cheap options, would be one of those voice processors used for radio. A symetrix, probably. Something like this:

Symetrix 528E microphone processor - BSW Professional Audio Gear

(BSW is good for broadcast level units, btw -- their staff knows radio)

Then get it modified to sound good here:
audio upgrades price list

That $175 mod will make all the difference in the world. So it'd be $675 total, plus s/h.

For high end, The VoxBox is used on a few tours. Beck uses one. You could also go with a Pendulum Quartet I. That's a great strip, with a nice optical compressor. Maybe $3k for that.

Next time 'round, I'm going to try using a DW Fearn VT15 I just got in, if I can get a good rack for it. That costs more than anything above, though.

If you don't already have a dealer you like and trust, I recommended Craig Calistro. He's a charming, quirky guy... good attitude... easy exchanges if you don't like something... and he has great pricing on most high end stuff. www.calistromusic.com. There are some nice dealers on this forum, too, but Craig is worllllds better than any Guitar Center, as well as some of the of the antisocial high end shops that have a non-client centered, elitist attitude. Of course, now that I read that you're in Poland (big duh on my part!)... gosh, I guess a Euro brand might be better than anything here in terms of cost effectiveness.

[soundpilot]

Originally Posted by moracspace

Honestly its not gonna matter what pre you use,unless you are recording the source and thats the main reason for the channel strip.There are to many varibles in a live situation to concern yourself with.

Heres a good one for instance.
I was working the seether tour,opening act FLYLEAF great band.
BTW.
I tend to listen to the bands im not working with at the FOH.My eyes started glazing over the racks,I thoght to myself nothing special here really dont matter anywhoa.Then in the corner of my eye I spotted a Crane Song Trakker.I had to ask the board op what up with the Trakker?He said what?The trakker, as I pointed to it.HIM:Oh an enginner friend let me borrow it for her vocals,its the only thing that works on her voice.Honestly there is no way anyone could ever tell there was a trakker on her voxs.

The way most venues are setup, I think you have a great point there... Any decent pre and processor will probably work. I would ask for a musical sounding eq, though, simply 'cuz some can sound so bad, that weird artifacts might actually show up.

[7rojo7]

STT-1 Origin Millennia. in the studio or live, for voice or bass. It has a 'twin topology', Mic pre tube or solid state and EQ compressor section tube or solid state. I have one for sale in the second hand gear section, I originally had 4 now I have 3 and need to sell the other, I want to keep 2 for the obvious mixdown reasons. Lot's of choices for a 2U piece. it has a switchable output trans and a DI input. chameleon

[Jim vanBergen]

Originally Posted by soundpilot

Hey, Jim... I'm about to take some very nice tube gear on the road, a Fearn and maybe a Pendulum... what kind of shockmount rack do you have for sensitive gear?

In the early 90's I learned from Steve Remote that sensitive electronics travelled well in shock racks... mine are all wooden "inserts" -basic 3/4" Baltic birch wooden racks either custom fit or tightly fit inside a heavy duty foam rack. The outer rack is the key, using a well-built, durable case with butch casters and heavy-duty foam.

Have travelled several tube pieces with no issues...and when I'm worried, I take it OUT of the rack, put it in a Pelican case, bubble wrap it, foam the crap out of it, and bring another set of bubble wrap for the next stop. I've had pieces like this travel great in buses, in the backs of semi trucks, in various cargo holds, and via UPS of FedEx. Caveat: don't use a pelican in temperatures below freezing, as they will shatter!

I also found that non-shock SKB racks or cheaper racks with mediocre foam and 1/2" or smaller wood rack inserts were not enough to save my gear when it was dropped (which is every time it is shipped). I had more issues with recorders than most, or internal PC boards and metalwork on cases than anything else.

Personally, if I were bringing a Fearn or a Pendulum, I'd price out & getting each piece its own Pelican Case as well as a custom-built Shock mount rack for my tube gear, if everything else is travelling in racks and the act carries racks & stacks.

If you can't control the rack, then put the gear in your hand luggage and carry it until you feel comfy. OH- get service manuals and spare tubes for each piece.

Hope this helps!

JvB

[Sean Walker]

I second the ATI Pro6. No problems with the other units or solutions mentioned, but it's hard to beat the sound and utility all packed into a single rack space!

[Remoteness]

You don't see a lot of them for sale...

That should tell you how awesome they actually are.

[jude]

Originally Posted by jasonraboin

For about the same money you could get a Midas XL42 and a Drawmer 1968 or similar comp and have two very good channels.

love the XL42. used to use 2 of them, best live vocal EQ IMHO

[Remoteness]

I have a few XL42s...

I like them a lot (we rent them out to live sound folks too,) but my ATI Pro6 channel strips rule!

Originally Posted by jude

love the XL42. used to use 2 of them, best live vocal EQ IMHO

[dickiefunk]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

Presonus Eureka and Aphex 230 are not expensive and have lots of goodies to dial up a decent sound. The 230 has one tube but it's a pretty rugged unit.

The Eureka has a more adjustable compressor. Aphex 230 dynamics are "automatic" and, being designed for spoken voice, may not work well for singers, but the parametric midrange EQ, a de-esser and sonic enhancement gadgets are interesting and may be just the thing.

+1 on the Eureka!

[jude]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

I have a few XL42s...

I like them a lot (we rent them out to live sound folks too,) but my ATI Pro6 channel strips rule!

any chance you want to part with one?

[Remoteness]

They're part of one of our preamp/EQ racks and I don't plan on selling them anytime soon.

We happen to have 8 ATI Pro6s and 4 (8 channels) XL42s in a sixteen space rack which is a pretty awesome rig when you need to track with EQ and stuff...

Originally Posted by jude

any chance you want to part with one?

[jude]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

They're part of one of our preamp/EQ racks and I don't plan on selling them anytime soon.

We happen to have 8 ATI Pro6s and 4 (8 channels) XL42s in a sixteen space rack which is a pretty awesome rig when you need to track with EQ and stuff...

not suprised you want to keep them, but thought i'd try my luck

[cheu78]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

I have a few XL42s...

I like them a lot (we rent them out to live sound folks too,) but my ATI Pro6 channel strips rule!

+1!!

I wonder why ATI stopped with the Pro6 though..

It's a very good piece..as it is the 8mx2 (it's probably the best 8 channel preamp outthere at that pricepoint IMO, with the added functionality of a mixer).

To the OP: I'd go for a Tonelux lunchbox 4 space rack (3RU) with: MA5, Tonelux EQ5P or the Speck ASC-V, Tonelux TX5C (or a JLA3 or the Inward Brute or the BAC500..), and a Derresser. (not cheap but you could have the pefect fit for that source and everything you asked for).

Btw I'm actually building various "channelstrips" within a lunchbox...
Purple rack Sweet Ten with: Avedis MA5 - Tonelux EQ5P - Tonelux TX5C for the main vox, MA5 - Shinybox Guillotine for bass (reggae), MA5 on the kick, API 512 (modded with cinemag xformers) - Tonelux TX5C for the snare, and 2 Safesound P501 pre-compressors for background vocals..
of course it's modular and I can always decide to change some pieces here and there..

probably not the cheapest way, but the quality is stellar, you cover more than 1 instrument in a very limited rack space (3RU), and it's fully modular..

I'd also considering the Aurora Audio GTQC, the eq is very limited though especially for live usage.
Or a BAE 1028 (or 1084) with a compressor, maybe a distressor.. (total of 2RU).

just my 0.02$,

Bests,

Cheu

[Remoteness]

ATI (now API) stopped manufacturing the Pro6 due to the fact that they don't have any of the original parts available.

The problem is the original Paragon P40 is not a Paragon PII.
The parts for the P40 are extremely hard to find and not available from API.

The Pro6 was based on the original Paragon P40 and parts are long gone I'm afraid.
This is why they stopped manufacturing the Pro6.

The Pro6 would need to be redesign to fabricate a completely new unit.
Man, I'd love that possibility, but I don't think it's even on the back burner.

Originally Posted by cheu78

+1!!

I wonder why ATI stopped with the Pro6 though..

It's a very good piece..as it is the 8mx2 (it's probably the best 8 channel preamp outthere at that pricepoint IMO, with the added functionality of a mixer)...<snip>

[cheu78]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

ATI (now API) stopped manufacturing the Pro6 due to the fact that they don't have any of the original parts available.

The problem is the original Paragon P40 is not a Paragon PII.
The parts for the P40 are extremely hard to find and not available from API.

The Pro6 was based on the original Paragon P40 and parts are long gone I'm afraid.
This is why they stopped manufacturing the Pro6.

The Pro6 would need to be redesign to fabricate a completely new unit.
Man, I'd love that possibility, but I don't think it's even on the back burner.

That's a real shame.. They should think seriously to redesign as close as possible to the original those units..(with QUALITY parts).. Great sounding pieces, very versatile feature wise, rugged.. Perfect!

Thanks for the insight!

Ciao

Cheu

[Remoteness]

Believe me, I have discussed this with Larry Droppa a number of times.

He knows exactly how I (we) feel about the Pro6 of love;-)

Originally Posted by cheu78

That's a real shame.. They should think seriously to redesign as close as possible those units.. Great sounding pieces, very versatile feature wise, rugged.. Perfect!

Thanks for the insight!

Ciao

Cheu