Reasons to Maintain Mono-Compatibility

[hduncan]

I know we hear this a lot when talking about the haas effect for panning and other stereo effects- but lets create a condensed list of why your mix should be mono compatible.

Is it true that the broadcast style of radios often creates some "bleed" from each side of a stereo channel into the other channel, effectively making it closer to mono?

I can imagine that if this is true- is probably one of the most important reasons to maintain mono-compatibility- as I'm sure most mixing engineers would be stoked to have their tracks played on air.

What other reasons are there to maintain mono-compatibility if virtually everyone listens to a song with 2 or more speakers?

[chris carter]

1) FM radio low signal reception collapses to mono automatically
2) youtube is mono
3) many television productions use music in mono
4) muzak is mono
5) clubs play music in mono

need I go on?

[nickynicknick]

Originally Posted by chris carter

1) FM radio low signal reception collapses to mono automatically
2) youtube is mono
3) many television productions use music in mono
4) muzak is mono
5) clubs play music in mono

need I go on?

well put...also getting your mix sounding exciting from a a single point source is harder to do...it's very good practice to work on your mix for a while this way...I do this a lot even if to change the listening environment to be more realistic...however the argument the other way is pretty strong...kids are listening on buds...in stereo....period....My point is .....do whatever the **** you want...if you want to be a better engineer learn how to mix in mono.

Nick

[hduncan]

This is the model thread. Thanks for the swift and excellent responses.

And yes, Chris, you may go on..

[tamasdragon]

One more reason, if you manage to maintain very good mono compatibility, suddendly you will realize that your mix is much more stellar in stereo too.
Tamas Dragon

[gurubuzz]

Some sounds will disappear completely in MONO


Especially the pan and micro delay stuff...

[FBM]

Hi, I know it's a bit beside the subject, but the reason why I check for mono comp. is not only to see if it is mono comp., but when a have a pan problem I alway's flip to Mono and when I hear the instrument in Mono in de mix I'm a 100% sure it fits in my Stereo mix. (A old trick!)
Cheers David

[cyork]

Thanks to iPods and the like, many people are listening to 128kbits/sec mp3s. Ever noticed how collapsed some mixes sound when their compressed?

In the process of compressing, most codecs such as mp3 revert a mode called joint-stereo for encoding data rates of 128kbits/sec or lower. 128kbits/sec seems to be the defacto standard people use to share music.

Joint stereo generally takes a look at the information below ~500Hz and collapses it to mono. The main reason being that do to our physical head dimensions we are less sensitive to the localization of frequencies below that point. Since codecs are about data efficiency, this saves encoding that information for both channels and allows the files to be smaller and/or use more bits to encode the higher frequencies.

Now though it's not completely mono, with so much music being consumed this way it's worth a check.

Cheers,
Chad

Note: Most codecs will default to use full stereo encoding at 160kbits/sec or higher.

[travisbrown]

In Canada, the primary programming for national radio (CBC Radio One) broadcasts on A.M. in most major metros. I'm not even sure that the F.M. broadcasts of the same programming are stereo; they are likely just mono on F.M.

Your tracks will get rejected by show producers if they don't sound good in mono.

CBC is sort of where you start in Canada.

[Singinto Th'Can]

Here's some more:

Clock radios, beach radios, table radios and mono ipod docks - there are lots of these!

PA systems in small clubs are usually mono. Important if you're doing backing tracks, or even if you just want to get the sound person to play your tunes between bands.

[hduncan]

This is all really good info! Thanks everyone for the input, great points.

So maybe HardPanning stuff isnt the greatest idea? Doing so would throw your mixes off balance-wise if they were to get collapsed to Monophonic in any of these situations since you'd be doubling the volume of those hardpanned sounds when they get played in both speakers.

[travisbrown]

Originally Posted by DarkEcho

This is all really good info! Thanks everyone for the input, great points.

So maybe HardPanning stuff isnt the greatest idea? Doing so would throw your mixes off balance-wise if they were to get collapsed to Monophonic in any of these situations since you'd be doubling the volume of those hardpanned sounds when they get played in both speakers.

You don't double the volume. Two identical signals summed increases the overall volume by 3db. Since the same mono mix is now playing through each speaker (as you propose), it seem that everything would be subject to the +3db phenomena, not just some of the mix elements. Rising tide floats all boats sort of thing. Or sinks some that are susceptible to phase cancellation.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I'm guessing a bit.

[hduncan]

Originally Posted by travisbrown

You don't double the volume. Two identical signals summed increases the overall volume by 3db. Since the same mono mix is now playing through each speaker (as you propose), it seem that everything would be subject to the +3db phenomena, not just some of the mix elements. Rising tide floats all boats sort of thing. Or sinks some that are susceptible to phase cancellation.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I'm guessing a bit.

3dB is the increase that results from doubling the power of an audio signal. To double the perceived volume, I believe it takes a 10dBFS increase? I think my use of the word "doubling" was confusing, we're probably saying the same thing.

However, everything would not be subject to the +3dB phenomena because the sounds that are panned center are already "doubled". The sounds panned hard left and hard right are compensated already for the apparent drop in loudness either by you or by a +3dBFS pan law.

[gainstages]

I'm always concerned about mono compatibility because it just seems unavoidable that my tracks will be played back in mono at some point or another. So, when I am tracking I try to avoid situations where I'm creating problems with my mic technique that i'll have to mess with later - that could be limiting the number of mic's on an item, using highly compatible stereo mic techniques (especially M/S), etc.

Additionally, I check mixes in mono to help with panning (and eq) as was noted as an "old trick" before. it's amazing how things jump out at you when you have it just right, and then when you switch back to stereo it always sounds great.

[gainstages]

actually, speaking of mono compatibility, I'll put in a shameless plug for my blog, where i have 2 recent articles about using M/S and other stereo mic techniques and hit on the mono compatibility issue somewhat in the articles.

[larrykane]

what's the easiest way in a DAW to set up an easy to toggle, so to speak, mono bus or some other way to quick check the mono mix? I use Sonar Producer 7 but its probably a universal DAW question

[hduncan]

In logic you can use the Gain plugin. There is probably something similar for you... or if you have an extra speaker, you could do it physically by routing two stereo outputs into one speaker. (True mono)

[wesarvin]

What about the MONO button?

I know most Digi LE systems have one.

[DrDeltaM]

Originally Posted by gainstages

I'm always concerned about mono compatibility because it just seems unavoidable that my tracks will be played back in mono at some point or another. So, when I am tracking I try to avoid situations where I'm creating problems with my mic technique that i'll have to mess with later - that could be limiting the number of mic's on an item, using highly compatible stereo mic techniques (especially M/S), etc.

One problem with M/S is when recording really 'wide' sources (or groups of sources). Since the S part will effectively dissapear when summing to mono, some important information can be lost as well in such cases. How much is lost depends on how directional your M mic is.

[larrykane]

Originally Posted by guitarwes

What about the MONO button?

I know most Digi LE systems have one.

There doesn't seem to be any except on each track, which is an unacceptable method as some plugins when set up in stereo behave differently in mono.
Note- I say doesn't seem to be one because maybe there is, but not according to me or the manual.

[Andreas G]

Originally Posted by larrykane

There doesn't seem to be any except on each track, which is an unacceptable method as some plugins when set up in stereo behave differently in mono.
Note- I say doesn't seem to be one because maybe there is, but not according to me or the manual.

You might use a third party plugin like brainworx solo or the monomaker-plugin. There should be a lot out there even for free.

[larrykane]

Originally Posted by Andreas G

You might use a third party plugin like brainworx solo or the monomaker-plugin. There should be a lot out there even for free.

thanks i'll try that

[gainstages]

Originally Posted by DrDeltaM

One problem with M/S is when recording really 'wide' sources (or groups of sources). Since the S part will effectively dissapear when summing to mono, some important information can be lost as well in such cases. How much is lost depends on how directional your M mic is.

right you are with that. all the more reason to know what you are doing and choose your mic technique appropriately.

[gainstages]

Originally Posted by dylansmale

I've been to plenty of clubs that play music in stereo

just keep in mind that with clubs, (or any room for that matter, but especially with clubs) even if they have a nice stereo system, depending on where you are in the room, you may not be hearing an actual stereo image. Obviously, if you are standing right in front of a huge stack of speakers one one side of the room you aren't hearing the other side worth a darn. I've been in some really good clubs that have a pretty good sound no matter where you are, but most of them are mediocre at best as you move around, with lots of problem spots. So, the point i'm slowly trying to make is that when mixing and mastering a track that is specifically intended for club play, it's best to avoid a lot of stereo gimics and extreme panning, otherwise what people actually hear on the dance floor might be pretty poor depending on where they are at. If your mix sounds bad in mono, it's most likely going to perform poorly in a club as well.

[hduncan]

Originally Posted by gainstages

just keep in mind that with clubs, (or any room for that matter, but especially with clubs) even if they have a nice stereo system, depending on where you are in the room, you may not be hearing an actual stereo image. Obviously, if you are standing right in front of a huge stack of speakers one one side of the room you aren't hearing the other side worth a darn. I've been in some really good clubs that have a pretty good sound no matter where you are, but most of them are mediocre at best as you move around, with lots of problem spots. So, the point i'm slowly trying to make is that when mixing and mastering a track that is specifically intended for club play, it's best to avoid a lot of stereo gimics and extreme panning, otherwise what people actually hear on the dance floor might be pretty poor depending on where they are at. If your mix sounds bad in mono, it's most likely going to perform poorly in a club as well.

This is correct.

I think the best bet is to use stereo as any effect; sparingly.

[Rob-K]

MONO RULES. Drums can sound HUGE in mono.

Rob

[danbee]

Originally Posted by cyork

Joint stereo generally takes a look at the information below ~500Hz and collapses it to mono.

That is not correct. Joint stereo (with regard to MP3) is a way of using similarities between the left and right channels to save bits when encoding. All else being equal a joint-stereo encoded MP3 will be better quality than a plain stereo encode.

Good article about it here: Joint Stereo: The Myths ... and The Realities

[Everyman]

Originally Posted by larrykane

There doesn't seem to be any except on each track, which is an unacceptable method as some plugins when set up in stereo behave differently in mono.
Note- I say doesn't seem to be one because maybe there is, but not according to me or the manual.

No, he means that there is a "Mono" button on the Digi boxes right near the monitor level control knob. Instant mono compatibility.

But I personally use an external monitor controller, which has a mono button for comp checks.

[Duardo]

I've been to plenty of clubs that play music in stereo, many great CD's are very stereo sounding too, the mix-down to mono I'm sure can be done with the click of a button

The question isn't whether a mix should be stereo or mono, but how important it is for a stereo mix to be mono-compatible...in other words, how much stuff "disappears" when you click that button to mix it down to mono. Something that many people probably overlook these days...

[Full Clip Audio]

Another reason to have your low end mono is if it is going to vinyl. That being said, I wouldnt sacrifice all the benefits of having things slightly out of phase to have 100% mono compatibility. Electric (distorted) guitars for instance are almost always out of phase to some degree. Thats what makes them sound so huge. If you hit "mono" on a lot of your favorite modern rock records, a lot of the guitars will disappear. I think this is ok. You just have to make sure you dont lose too much. I think a bit of loss (even quite a bit) is worth the massive image that you get in stereo.