recommendations for recording classical guitar for pop song

Robert · 18th September 2004

I am adding a nylon guitar track mostly solos to a rock song . The mics I have avaliable are 1 Royer 121 , 1 AEA R84, 2 AKG 414, 2 Grove tube AM40, 1 elux 251,1 Soundeluxe U99.
Preamps Avaliable are TG2, Drawmer 1969, Great Rivers Mp, API 512, LTD-1.

I just wondering what would be good starting point for a natural warm sound.
The Mp and Royer? And should I start with 1 mic or 2 mics?
Anyway deep thanks to anybody taking the time to help..

Paul David · 18th September 2004

I'm sure you know that you should experiment with all sorts of mics/ positions/ pres to find the setting that works best for the song, so I'll spare you the lecture (or wait I already gave it).

In this same situation I've had good luck with a single LDC at about the 12th fret pointed towards the soundhole into a clean pre. You might want to try that u99 in this position into the Great river (MH or NV?) or the 512. Best of luck.

Robert · 19th September 2004

Thanks Ill try the U99 with the API pre and the great River and see which one works better for the song.

Frost · 19th September 2004

A natural warm acoustic guitar sound is hard to mix into a rock track. I have made it work using an omni a few feet back then using a low cut at 120 when mixing. I usually like a small diaphram like an earthworks on a relatively thin preamp, it doesnt sound as good solo'd but in the mix it avoids the huge low mid buildup that can happen when you try to put the track into a thick mix.

The rules are different when Im doing solo acoustic stuff.

Actually there are no rules

but I hate trying to fit a thick acoustic into a rock mix.

Frost

Robert · 19th September 2004

Yea I am worried about mixing the lows for his solo. The person doing the solo will be here in a couple hours. I am temped
to switch over to a telecaster clean sound. But I sure would love to get nice nylon guitar sound. I am going to try a few combinations with the classical guitar and see what happens. There is no Bass track on the song yet.
Wish me luck.

Curve Dominant · 19th September 2004

Quote:

I've had good luck with a single LDC at about the 12th fret pointed towards the soundhole into a clean pre.

This mic positioning on acoustic guitars (nylon or steel) has worked fine every single time I've tried it. Often I put an SM57 in that position, with an LCD somewhere else in the room, usually a few feet away and off axis from the sound hole. And I almost always end up EQing out the low mids as someone else has posted.

As a newbie AE I've found the challenge of successfully recording and mixing acoustic guitars into rock tracks entirely worth the effort, because when you finally get THAT SOUND it's amazing. Early efforts may produce garbage, but that's just a part of the learning curve.

Cornvalley · 19th September 2004

Something to try out as well would be MS or XY pointing down over the players shoulder six inches above and in front of the body a few or so inches (pointing somewhere between bridge and soundhole) Seems to be a natural focused sound that's not too lost in room ambience yet is open and can work well with somewhat dense arrangements. (provided your acoustic space is working well) Flesh, flesh w/fingernails, or pick will make your EQ decisions more apparent when it's mix time. I think nylon string is a difficult instrument to represent without an experiened player that has taken some years working at it. Can be beautiful thing or something akin to chicken scratch.

Paul David · 19th September 2004

Quote:

Flesh, flesh w/fingernails, or pick will make your EQ decisions more apparent when it's mix time. I think nylon string is a difficult instrument to represent without an experiened player that has taken some years working at it. Can be beautiful thing or something akin to chicken scratch.

Great points. Which reminds me. I often use a nylon pick (Jim Dunlop .88m) with a nylon string guitar. It is breaking the rules and the guitarist may laugh at you as it's not "right" to use a pick on a nylon string guitar. But flesh can get too murky in a dense track and fingernails usually sound obtrusive. YMMV.

Cornvalley · 20th September 2004

David, two players immediately came to mind. Earl Klugh and Peter White, both of the smooth jazz genre have mostly a fleshy-short nail and basically round sounding attacks. Somehow the 'way' they say what they do cuts through the mostly dense textures of their music just as importantly as mics and pres. Great studies in arranging for the instrument and genre as well with those two though I would give Peter the nod on that score. Tommy Tedesco uses a pick when playing the nylon. He's one hell of a studio session maverick out here. Played on more dates than you'd care to count. He knows it's not 'legit' (forgive me Segovia for I have sinned) but gets the job done, and very, very well.

18th September 2004	#1
Robert Gear nut Joined: Jan 2004 Location: MD Posts: 80 Thread Starter	recommendations for recording classical guitar for pop song I am adding a nylon guitar track mostly solos to a rock song . The mics I have avaliable are 1 Royer 121 , 1 AEA R84, 2 AKG 414, 2 Grove tube AM40, 1 elux 251,1 Soundeluxe U99. Preamps Avaliable are TG2, Drawmer 1969, Great Rivers Mp, API 512, LTD-1. I just wondering what would be good starting point for a natural warm sound. The Mp and Royer? And should I start with 1 mic or 2 mics? Anyway deep thanks to anybody taking the time to help..

18th September 2004	#2
Paul David Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2004 Location: Nashville Posts: 641	I'm sure you know that you should experiment with all sorts of mics/ positions/ pres to find the setting that works best for the song, so I'll spare you the lecture (or wait I already gave it). In this same situation I've had good luck with a single LDC at about the 12th fret pointed towards the soundhole into a clean pre. You might want to try that u99 in this position into the Great river (MH or NV?) or the 512. Best of luck. __________________ http://pauldavid.us

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19th September 2004	#3
Robert Gear nut Joined: Jan 2004 Location: MD Posts: 80 Thread Starter	Thanks Ill try the U99 with the API pre and the great River and see which one works better for the song.

19th September 2004	#4
Frost Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 711	A natural warm acoustic guitar sound is hard to mix into a rock track. I have made it work using an omni a few feet back then using a low cut at 120 when mixing. I usually like a small diaphram like an earthworks on a relatively thin preamp, it doesnt sound as good solo'd but in the mix it avoids the huge low mid buildup that can happen when you try to put the track into a thick mix. The rules are different when Im doing solo acoustic stuff. Actually there are no rules but I hate trying to fit a thick acoustic into a rock mix. Frost

19th September 2004	#7
Cornvalley Gear addict Joined: Jul 2002 Location: Woodland Hiils, CA Posts: 438	Something to try out as well would be MS or XY pointing down over the players shoulder six inches above and in front of the body a few or so inches (pointing somewhere between bridge and soundhole) Seems to be a natural focused sound that's not too lost in room ambience yet is open and can work well with somewhat dense arrangements. (provided your acoustic space is working well) Flesh, flesh w/fingernails, or pick will make your EQ decisions more apparent when it's mix time. I think nylon string is a difficult instrument to represent without an experiened player that has taken some years working at it. Can be beautiful thing or something akin to chicken scratch.

20th September 2004	#9
Cornvalley Gear addict Joined: Jul 2002 Location: Woodland Hiils, CA Posts: 438	David, two players immediately came to mind. Earl Klugh and Peter White, both of the smooth jazz genre have mostly a fleshy-short nail and basically round sounding attacks. Somehow the 'way' they say what they do cuts through the mostly dense textures of their music just as importantly as mics and pres. Great studies in arranging for the instrument and genre as well with those two though I would give Peter the nod on that score. Tommy Tedesco uses a pick when playing the nylon. He's one hell of a studio session maverick out here. Played on more dates than you'd care to count. He knows it's not 'legit' (forgive me Segovia for I have sinned) but gets the job done, and very, very well.