Monitor speakers for location recording vehicles...

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by Plush

I would be using the 0300D or 400 model in the truck.

Just to say that the O400 has now been replaced by the O410 - you can't get the O400 new anymore (unless it's old stock).

[Loki]

Originally Posted by John Willett

With bass-heavy rock stuff the PMCs come into their own and the Harbeth certainly fall down here, I had not realised ATC were not good here as well; but I think K+H are still good with bass heavy rock.

The ATCs are good, but the SL drivers on the ATC can't reach as low as the Transmission Line for cabinet size.

For something like the 20ASL and SCM50, I'd prefer a sub to be included to get a really flat response out of the ATCs (sometimes even for the SCM100.) The mid range driver (75mm) is what shines. Won't look at the ATCs without it (the 20 has a mid/bass construct that still has the 75.) For the 20s, you're good to 40-45Hz without sub and you can compensate for roll-off by cranking the bass extension on the back to get to a real usable 35Hz -- but then the focus seems to slide. For the 50s, I'd say you can drop that by other 5Hz with more SPL. For the 100s and up, adding a sub just adds sound reinforcement and SPL ability.

The PMC can pack a real low end punch (less focused though) and level. I've never felt the need for a sub with any of the PMC mid size speakers (depending on room acoustics, of course.) For that reason, for easy transportability (less to carry) the smaller PMC + bryston powerpack (or AML) seem better; 2 speakers only, active, no sub needed, generally a lighter weight than the ATC, and as close to full-range as you're going to get in the size. The Flying Mole ones are cheaper (by a lot), but you can tell pretty quickly that the drivers need more juice and aren't performing up to their ability.

I don't do rock; classical/classical hybrid only (though I do listen to rock/pop/jazz)

[Plush]

Thank you for the correction , John.

I did know that the 410 was the new model and I meant to post the 410.

I would never spend more than this (for ATC monitors for example) because the listening environment is not apt to be good. To my mind, EVERY truck no matter how fancy has acted as a poor sounding room.

Wouldn't all post prod. take place back in a studio anyway?

[matthewd]

I use PMC AML1s myself. I had to take them to the PMC factory in Luton recently and guess what was in the loading bay? Digidesign monitors by the barrow load, so I think we can safely say PMC make these for them - unless of course they are made elsewhere to their design but I don't think so. I haven't heard them so can't comment on that. I use ATC SCM20s at one particular place I work quite a lot and the bass doesn't seem to extend as far as the AML1s and they are more tiring to listen to over long periods.

Matt Dilley

[marty lester]

i heard the Digi PMC monitors (both the RM1 and RM2) in stereo
and 5.1 (just the RM2s if i'm not mistaken in 5.1) in a crappy
hotel conference room and i was impressed.

the two things i really liked were a decided reduction in
off-axis coloration for a better sound throughout the
listening area and the really good bass response at
quiet levels. maybe that one isn't so important in
a big truck, but it was impressive.

mind you, i wasn't listening to any of my "known" music
in my "known" space, but i was impressed.

so Steve, how about those good old B&W 802 speakers in
your truck? i mixed on those once in a studio here in Austin
and loved them...until i realized they were so clean i was listening
way louder way longer than i usually did and got fatigued pretty
quickly.

marty.

[Loki]

Originally Posted by matthewd

I use PMC AML1s myself. I had to take them to the PMC factory in Luton recently and guess what was in the loading bay? Digidesign monitors by the barrow load, so I think we can safely say PMC make these for them

Thanks Matt... a correction to my earlier post, the Digi monitors are manufactured by PMC in the UK [Just looked on the back of a pair of RM2s that were around me.]

I still stand by statement that the materials used are much cheaper and it is apparent in the difference in sound quality compared to "real" PMC monitors. I do wonder who makes the amps for these speakers...

[Roland]

Originally Posted by Loki

Thanks Matt... a correction to my earlier post, the Digi monitors are manufactured by PMC in the UK [Just looked on the back of a pair of RM2s that were around me.]

I still stand by statement that the materials used are much cheaper and it is apparent in the difference in sound quality compared to "real" PMC monitors. I do wonder who makes the amps for these speakers...

That doesn't surprise me at all, Digidesign monitors look more like an exercise in marketing, that's not to say that there is any reason why they may not sound good.

I used B&W 805's equipped with the B&W sub, in a very small room at the Royal Opera House in London. The room was a little bit wider than a truck, about the same hight and length. Based on that performance I would suspect that they migh work very well in that kind or environment.

Regards


Roland

[Remoteness]

We are evaluating the K&H O 410 in ELROY at the moment.
Man, these speakers can get very loud when necessary.

We're looking to demo offers too...

Making the list, so we can call the manufacturers.

[Jim vanBergen]

I still like Meyer HD-1s, and Dynaudio Acoustics. While I use BM5s (passive) with Hafler amplification, I bet the Air 15 would be a good active monitor to shoot out.

HD-1s USED to be the truck standard...now Genelec 1032as are what I find to be the most common on the audio suites within broadcast video trucks.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by matthewd

I use PMC AML1s myself. I had to take them to the PMC factory in Luton recently and guess what was in the loading bay? Digidesign monitors by the barrow load, so I think we can safely say PMC make these for them - unless of course they are made elsewhere to their design but I don't think so. I haven't heard them so can't comment on that. I use ATC SCM20s at one particular place I work quite a lot and the bass doesn't seem to extend as far as the AML1s and they are more tiring to listen to over long periods.

I was at the London International Music Show today and looked at the Digi monitors - it definitely says on them that they are made by PMC.

Trouble is with these shows is that I have now added the Prism Orpheus and the Olympus LS-10 to my "to buy"list.

[klaukholm]

Although they may require a larger room than your mobile unit, I would consider the B&W 802D.
The dimensions you mentioned are in the same ballpark as our main listening room here we have 801's.

The 801 and 802 are the only speaker everyone I know feels comfortable working on.

While I personally quite like the SCM20-2 I have had very respectable engineers we work with feel uncomfortable with their sound and as such decided not to buy a 5.1 set. It seems that in orchestral sessions the guys with more of a studio background disagree with what they hear from the ATC's while those of us that come from the classical side love them.

Bottom line is I would get them in a heartbeat if they were only being used by our own people but alas we have outside clients.

[Roland]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

Although they may require a larger room than your mobile unit, I would consider the B&W 802D.
The dimensions you mentioned are in the same ballpark as our main listening room here we have 801's.

The 801 and 802 are the only speaker everyone I know feels comfortable working on.

While I personally quite like the SCM20-2 I have had very respectable engineers we work with feel uncomfortable with their sound and as such decided not to buy a 5.1 set. It seems that in orchestral sessions the guys with more of a studio background disagree with what they hear from the ATC's while those of us that come from the classical side love them.

Bottom line is I would get them in a heartbeat if they were only being used by our own people but alas we have outside clients.

The ATC SCM20's are great, but they do sound a little forward in the midrange. I had occasion to use the 802's a couple of times and was underwhelmed. I've never been a particular fan of the B&W range in years gone past, IMHO the latest 800 series is a serious step-up from their monitors from the 80's and 90's. All that being said the 805's are great, particularly paired with the B&W subwoofer. The Royal Opera House in London has 802's (2 or 3 pairs) and the 805's with the sub. I felt the 805's with the sub were better (they also happen to be cheaper too) than the 802's. This view was also shared by 2 or 3 of the sound department staff there.

Regards



Roland

[klaukholm]

Originally Posted by Roland

The ATC SCM20's are great, but they do sound a little forward in the midrange.
Regards
Roland

That is excatly what they react to.

Would you say you could not work on the larger B&Ws, or are they just not your top pick?

In other words would 802D's be a dealbreaker for you if you needed to rent a remote truck?

[Roland]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

That is excatly what they react to.

Would you say you could not work on the larger B&Ws, or are they just not your top pick?

In other words would 802D's be a dealbreaker for you if you needed to rent a remote truck?

Intrestingly, I've used the 802's in session where I had no choice, they were what was there and I subsequently used them. It wasn't critical and I could yield enough information to know that I had what I needed. Strangely in the Royal Opera House the recording room is small, very similar (as I pointed out earlier in this thread) to the back of a romote truck in dimensions. In this environment they performed even worse than they did on a previous occasion in a much larger room, I gauged that they are quite room reactive and critical for placement. My personal dislike for the speaker comes from it's midrange, which just doesn't sound natural to me, the bass was strange sounding also, but I suspect that is a function of cancelations due to its dual bass driver design, as I said before, I much preffered the 805's with a sub, smooth, detailed and the bass end is glorious, deep, yet not overblown. I wouldn't state the case so strongly if it was just my own opinion, however several other knowlegeable ears were there and they concurred with my evaluation. It must be also pointed out that I didn't get to listen to the 805's with rock material my listening was purely classical content.

Regards


Roland

[klaukholm]

Our 801's are very amp fussy and need a large room.

I am looking for location surround, and you have convinced me to go listen to the 805's again with that in mind.
How do those fare without a sub in your mind?

[muziekschuur]

Active PMC's is what I definitively would try. Some Bagend Monitors would be great. Allso that box for active roomtreatment by Bagend could be of reall use to you.

I have worked with Genelec's. Could be a great monitor aswell. They have different sizes. Not sure how "big" you want them.

Tannoy still makes some great monitor's. They have the reall supertweeters. They offer various boxes and are able to offer some very small boxes with a 'big sound' .

The Stage Accompany M44 might be a great monitor aswell. The biggest advantage about Stage Accompany is that they were allways able to deliver a great speaker in flightcase material. Great for being on the road.


Muziekschuur

[klaukholm]

As a tb2sa owner I would say they are not audiophile.
They get the job done for me, but they are grainy in the highs and a little boomy in the bass at high levels.
The amp leaves something to be desired.

Lipinski 707 with subs come to mind as candidates to try.

[Roland]

I totally agree about the TB2a's. A friend of mine has them and I've used them a few times. They work alright for rock music, a bit of a "blunt" instrument for classical, not the depth or detail that's required. I've never used the Lipinski's, I've heard many fans of them, however, someone I know and respect well in the industry described them as a little delicate sounding.

Please bear in mind that my experience with the 805's was exclusively with the subwoofer attached, without it my views may be different, I have to say what I loved with the sub was you feel no sense of the system being overblown, however, as soon as there is the requirement there is extension and power more than you can imagine.

Another speaker (I'm not sure if it has been mentioned here before) that I would also try to take a look at is the JBL 6300 series. Those who I know of that have come into contact with them have been very complimentary, I've not heard them myself, but they have possibly some of the best specs I've ever seen on a speaker system.

Regards


Roland

[Remoteness]

See, that's the thing...

Is there a speaker system out there that can work for all genres of music without any compromises?

Rock, Jazz, Funk, R&B, Classical, Choral styles and such.
The question is, Can one speaker system do it all?

[Roland]

Interestingly enough, I genuinely think that's possible. A speaker that is good for classical should be good for rock, unless there are spl delivery issues. Perhaps something like the Meyer X10? I can't see any reason why the 805's with a sub should be a problem for rock music, just haven't heard them playing that personally.

Regards


Roland

[David Rick]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

I like the Adams for rock, I'm not sure they go well with the Jazz and Classical folks.
I'd like to find speakers that will work well with all genres.

Well, count me as one who is doing classical production on ADAM's. I'm using S2A's plus a sub in a 5.1 setup. The thing that hooked me was that the folded ribbon tweater has plenty of detail without sounding obnoxious on strings. Never could deal with Genelec's because of that issue.

But I have to confess that I'm still using the old Tannoy System 8 NFM II's on location. Frankly, I have fewer bass translation issues with the ADAM's, but my five are a set and I don't like to split them up every time I do a remote. I am looking at options for something smaller and (because I don't have a truck) lighter.

Your mileage may vary... but it will always be less than my Subaru!

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording

[muziekschuur]

Harbeth UK
Used by the BBC.

Should make a great mobile home speaker.

The smallest Harbeth is the Monitor 20 which replaces the BBC LS3/5a in size and performance. These incredible mini monitors offer the easy Harbeth sound and are idea for small spaces such as Outside Broadcast trucks or workstation-offices and editing suites. The overall balance and bass extension is carefully designed so that programs made on Monitor 20s can and do go straight to transmission.

[muziekschuur]

Avantgarde USA...... Looks great. Not sure if they would fit in the mobile home though......

Would impress customers though.....



GOTCHA,,,,,,


(Or should I say, you've been punked)...

[Remoteness]

Mobile home?

I'm talking about a OB/recording truck that when expanded the control cabin will be over 42 meters wide by over 66 meters long.

I'm looking for the largest set of speakers (for the stereo mix) within reason for this application.

The 5.1 set up will be designed around a smaller set of speakers.

[videoteque]

I'm talking about a OB/recording truck that when expanded the control cabin will be over 42 meters wide by over 66 meters long.

Steve, you mean feet, ok??

[huub]

Adam s3a!

And whatever you do, DON'T get genelecs!

I am really happy we replaced all ours with adams..

huub

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by videoteque

Steve, you mean feet, ok??

Thanks for the correction...

I meant to say that the control cabin in the OB/recording truck when expanded is be over 4.7 meters wide by over 7.4 meters long.

[Remoteness]

So, does everyone feel the Adam S3As will work well across the wide musical genres we work on?

[Roland]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

So, does everyone feel the Adam S3As will work well across the wide musical genres we work on?

No, I think that you can hear what's going on with rock music on them, they seem to be very sensitive to level differences and over-emphasis frequency level differences. If a track is bright, it sounds very bright, if it's dull it sounds very dull, this might be a good thing for mixing, though I would find them fatiguing over prolonged listening.

IMHO no good for classical at all, they have very strange imaging (with orchestral recordings there is no sense of spread, very left right or centre only witha very narrow sweet spot) and no portrayal of front to back perspective, congested bass around the 300hz mark, a function of the dual/auxillary woofer design. They also impart a strange tonal quality to strings, not at all natural, which I can only conclude, must be the ribbon tweeter.

Regards



Roland