Good camcorder for audio

[tsvisser]

The beachtek device is mainly used for getting professional equipment hooked up to consumer cameras. 99% of videographers don't carry a laptop around with them to capture audio, but there is no technical reason why it couldn't be done. unless your recording music, it is probably best just to lay audio onto your camera. If your recording with a laptop, just use your audio interface. use a slate or some other hard objects to make the distinctive clack needed to synch audio.

the problems to be aware of...

your camera is recording, your computer is recording, there is no guarantee that you won't have some sort of drift. for a few minute shots, the drift will not be significant. for longer shots, the drift may or may not be significant based upon the quality of the clocks and the settings used.

professional methods used to keep devices in synch...
1) Video genlock - requires cameras that have composite video output and audio interfaces that have genlock video inputs (AJA, MOTU V4HD, Blackmagic, etc...)
2) SMPTPE time code - only pro cameras have LTC time code and very few audio interfaces have LTC input. There are LTC to MTC converters that will allow synch over MIDI. MOTU happens to allow LTC lock by hooking up the synch signal into any audio input on any of their interfaces.
3) Use professional level equipment that has accurate clocking, that can be reliably free run for hours with zero or minor frame drift
4) hire a professional sound crewmember

If this all sound confusing, its not really, just requires a bit of research and commitment to buying relatively expensive equipment or hire professionals who specialize in location sound. Throw into the mix 24fps, 23.976fps, 30fps, and 29.97fps and then 48KHz +/- 1% pull up / pull down clock rates...

If that scares you off, do yourself a favor and just record the audio to the camera or at the very least, record to both the camera and your computer at the same time, just in case you need a fall back option. once your comfortable with your workflow, you can streamline it, but be safe at first.

If your just working alone, take all the time and feel free to experiment as much as you wish. If you running a production that involves a lot of moving parts and hiring people (or scamming them into working for free / sandwiches as is so popular with today's Craigslist generation) just realize that wasted time is really disrespectful to all the people involved. When in doubt, hire professionals where needed.

[Shadow_7]

Originally Posted by Geoff J

so is there a way to hook this up
Beachtek DX-A2S Dual XLR Compact Audio Universal Adapter

to my audio interface to my computer's Garage Band program?

Am I shouting down a hollow well ?

There's a few folks who use that to connect decent mics to their consumer grade camcorders. If your computers audio interface is decent it shouldn't be too hollow of a well. Although I don't know how it compares to other preamps and such. And as long as you're tethered to your computer, you might not be able to use your cam in the manner you want. Or otherwise could.

I've pretty much resigned to the fact that I'll need to sync audio in post. Not that big of a deal IMO. I'm already having to resize/recompress in post since my current hardware can't render 1920x1080 AVCHD content in realtime. Just that step takes longer than 4x's the footage with current computing power. So another 1x's or 2x's is chump change, relatively. Extract the audio from the vid, easy stuff, takes relatively no time/space. Line up your other audio source with cam audio. Trim to tastes. Replace good audio with stock audio. You can even encode the video with both audio tracks. And select between the two with your media player.

[Geoff J]

cool, I think I just figured it out:

Get a 1/8 Y cable going to the mic in on my laptop to the camera,w/that interface hooked up to the camera, w/the mics coming out of that

this bypasses the preamp of the camera since I am not using the firewire on the camera

this way, I am using the Garage band software to record

Is that right ???

[tsvisser]

MIC > XLR cable to Beachtek > mini jack to Mac's mic input
this way you are recording via Garageband.

or...

MIC > XLR cable to Beachtek > mini jack to camera's minijack mic input > RCA to mini jack (or minijack to minijack if the camera only has mini headphone / line outputs) to the Mac's mic input.

option 2 would degrade the sound quality slightly going into the Mac, but you would be recoding both on the camera and on the Mac. This would give you a margin of safety in the event that the audio on the Mac was not good, lost, or did not synch due to settings.

The biggest variable in getting the setup right, beyond just making the correct connections, is getting your levels set up correctly. You need to find some way to make sure your gain levels are set correctly in each chain. Normally this is done with a 1KHz test tone at 0 or -20 dBU, but since your outboard equipment does not have generators and I don't know what type of metering you have on the Beachtek, not sure how to advise you. The intention is to make sure gain levels are hot all the way through the chain but not clipping. If you have the gain too low coming out of the Beachtek, for example, the input on the camera or the Mac would have to be boosted up in order to make up the gain loss, and in doing so, you amplify noise, thus decreasing signal to noise ratio.

What mic, camera, and specific model of Beachtek do you have? Do you have any other equipment? If I know the whole story, I can give you direct advices on what you should do rather than describing generalizations or beat around the bush with a bunch of caveats.

[jikky]

save your cash. get a sony ex1 or ex3. you'll be future proof

[Geoff J]

Originally Posted by tsvisser

What mic, camera, and specific model of Beachtek do you have? Do you have any other equipment? If I know the whole story, I can give you direct advices on what you should do rather than describing generalizations or beat around the bush with a bunch of caveats.

Thanks

Well, I have no equipment yet, because I want to see what works

I was planning on getting this
Beachtek DX-A2S Dual XLR Compact Audio Universal Adapter

And the canon HV 20

should this hookup actually work, and seems like it will now w/the options you have presented
will the first option work as far as recording audio/video simultaneously?




I have a mac book pro w/garage band

[tsvisser]

what mic(s) and what are you shooting? dialogue, music performances, ...?

[Geoff J]

Originally Posted by tsvisser

what mic(s) and what are you shooting? dialogue, music performances, ...?

ahh, I was hoping to record my guitar lessons w/ a lapel mic (not purchased yet) for my voice & a '57 hooked up to the guit cabinet

BTW, what are some good mics for live room mics for recording a live band session?

Also, if I wanted to mic the drums, etc . . is there a way to incorporate a mixer into the signal chain w/the camcorder?

Sorry for peppering you w/so much stuff, but your question just got me going )

[tsvisser]

I almost never feel like people give me enough information to help them out, but things generally do snowball once we get going.

For $400, you can get something like the Allen & Heath ZED mixing board which has a 2-track recording feature. Its not "hi-fidelity" but certainly sounds like it would meet your requirements, since you don't already own good mics, aren't likely to have unlimited funds in the near future, so would be a good first step until you outgrow its capabilities.

It will take 6 microphones and offer full mixing features with on board EQ. The USB connection will get you a good mix to your computer. unbalanced record outputs would be good to get a safety track onto your camera. Get a few SM57, 58 and start recording. I don't know if Garageband gives you the option to set to 48KHz, but if it does, you should record at that sampling rate for video related projects.

Almost any recording interface will get you where you need to. The mixing layout of the ZED stuff lends itself well to live jams, though, and once you set up your computer, you won't have to do so much fiddling with the settings, just treat the board like you would a live board. Only thing that sucks is that there is no transport controls on the board, so you would have to start and stop the recording on the Mac. I would not recommend rolling 100% through the whole session. Remember that frame drift I mentioned before? It would be better to record multiple short takes rather than 1 long one.

If you want to get into the world of multi-track recording, which I highly recommend, and are interested in actually mixing your work like an engineer, take a look at multi-channel interfaces with mic inputs. I mention two USB models, due to Apple's seemingly reduced allegiance to the firewire interconnect... Tascam US-1641 with 8 mic inputs (major connectors and controls all on the front of a 1RU panel) or the M-Audio Fastrack Ultra 8R, similar to the Tascam but with controls on the front and connectors on the rear. If you want to spend more money or currently have a firewire equipped Mac (not the new Macbook) or not likely to want to upgrade to a new machine in the foreseeable future, your options widen up by a whole lot.

[Geoff J]