Beta 87 vs Neuman 105 vs ?

[AdamZuf]

I would like to point out something, that I rarely see mentioned.
I tune the mains graphic eq with a vocal mic, using music only as secondary to tune the extremes, where the voice ain't dominant.
You can reach a natural tone with the GEQ with almost any mic to a fair degree, and even a 58 can sound a blast if the system and acoustics are ok. What is not achievable with EQ is resolution,tightness and crisp. Like you can't open the tone instead of buying new guitar strings. So in my opinion, the talk of frequency response of mics is secondary to these. The call should be made after you tuned the mains (or wedges) with each mic.

Didn't use the 105. The Beta 87a is a blast, first time I used it for a band I was blown away with the result. Much better then the 58, beta 58/57, audix 5 or 7, and the Heil PR22. Amazing feedback rejetion - and that meens not only a tight pattern, but uniform tight pattern. Didn't notice a problem with screaming singers, but maybe I haven't met the mic enough for that.
I'll buy one very soon.

[gtrplayer287]

I should preface this by saying I work for Sennheiser in the US.
That said, you should really try our E935 (cardioid) and E945 (supercardioid) dynamic vocal mics. They both have excellent gain before feedback and have a clear focused sound that cuts well over modern pop/rock. I often recommend them when customers are having feedback problems with KMS105 or Beta87, both of which have extended high end which can reduce their gain before feedback.

Josh Radin
Sennheiser Electronic Corp.

[wildplum]

Originally Posted by GuitarRuss

I wind up playing in rooms with incompetent soundmen and terrible acoustics so avoiding feedback while still having a clear and dynamic sound is a priority. So based on that and the price, I think I will choose between the 87, Audix or another mic. Which Electro Voice mic do you think is a contender in my price range?

I agree with Pohakun here. If you are dealing with with "incompetent soundmen and terrible acoustics" the last thing you want is a sensitive condenser. You'll be far better off (until you get to the point of having better conditions) with a dynamic such as the good ol' SM58. Even a novice sound tech will have a decent chance with that mic.

But, for the record, I have owned, at the same time, both the Shure 87 and the KMS 150 and KMS140 (and both Neumanns are supperior to the KMS10x models). I sold the Shure and now own 2 KMS150s and a 140. I have not had any feedback problems with them, but i do know what i am doing.

I did a number of shootouts with various clients of mine to determine the right stage mic for them. I found KMS150 (which has excellent gain before feedback when used correctly) more flattering on both males and females more often than the 87- which because it got seldom used, became expendable. But (big but) the KMS150 (nor any other mic) is not right for everyone. And the price tag hurts.

I would recomend that you go with a 58 for the time being. When you situation improves, then it will be time to invest in a mic which is "the" one for you. Find someone in your area (craig's list may be of help here) who has a selection of the more popular (and perhaps not so popular) models and hire them for an hour or two to do some testing. sing into each mic and record the result. then lisen. It is the best way to find the best mic for you.

[GuitarRuss]

Originally Posted by wildplum

I agree with Pohakun here. If you are dealing with with "incompetent soundmen and terrible acoustics" the last thing you want is a sensitive condenser. You'll be far better off (until you get to the point of having better conditions) with a dynamic such as the good ol' SM58. Even a novice sound tech will have a decent chance with that mic.

But, for the record, I have owned, at the same time, both the Shure 87 and the KMS 150 and KMS140 (and both Neumanns are supperior to the KMS10x models). I sold the Shure and now own 2 KMS150s and a 140. I have not had any feedback problems with them, but i do know what i am doing.

I did a number of shootouts with various clients of mine to determine the right stage mic for them. I found KMS150 (which has excellent gain before feedback when used correctly) more flattering on both males and females more often than the 87- which because it got seldom used, became expendable. But (big but) the KMS150 (nor any other mic) is not right for everyone. And the price tag hurts.

I would recomend that you go with a 58 for the time being. When you situation improves, then it will be time to invest in a mic which is "the" one for you. Find someone in your area (craig's list may be of help here) who has a selection of the more popular (and perhaps not so popular) models and hire them for an hour or two to do some testing. sing into each mic and record the result. then lisen. It is the best way to find the best mic for you.

I have a Beta 58 and a 57 that I use currently. They are good, but with a cheap preamp they don't exactly jump out. My old singer had a Beta 87 and it seemed to have a much crisper sound on the few mixers we compared it on.

[wildplum]

Originally Posted by GuitarRuss

I have a Beta 58 and a 57 that I use currently. They are good, but with a cheap preamp they don't exactly jump out. My old singer had a Beta 87 and it seemed to have a much crisper sound on the few mixers we compared it on.

No doubt about it, the 87 has a crisper, more detailed sound than the 58. and works better on many singers. However, everything in live sound is a compromise. If your primary concern is "incompetent soundmen and terrible acoustics" (quoted from your post), then the chances are your "incompetent soundmen" will have an easier time with the 58 (it places less demands on the soundman's skill level and is less susceptable to room issues). Overall, you are more likely to get a better result (you'll give up a bit of detail but reduce the chances of feedback, etc., ruining things).