Recording classical choir

[jerryC]

I am going to record a classical choir and I need some advise.

The location is a medium sized (old) church. Carpet on the floors and walls of wood. The ceiling high is aprox 10-12 meters. The natural reverberation of the church is pretty good. (Not the 5 second reverbs u get in big stonechurches but not completely dead either, something in between)

The choir consist of aprox 20-25 people. No band. (I guess it will be two rows of 12-13)

I`ve managed to borrow some great gear to do this recording.
What I`ve got available:

2 x DPA 4011 (sdc)
3 x Milab WM44 (sdc)
2 x Soundelux U195
1 x Neumann U149

Great River 2nv
Api 3124
Thermionic Earlybird 1.2 (2 chn valvepre)
TLAudio 5001 (4chn valvepre)

UA 2-1176

Since I have little/no experience with recording choirs I was hoping to get some tips on micplacement, how many mics etc...

[pkautzsch]

My first guess would be just a spaced pair of SDC omnis, take your time to find the sweet spot.
If no omnis, then the DPAs, take your time to find the sweet spot.
If you like, you could augment the cardioid main pair with widely spaced outriggers or a room pair. Did I mention: take your time to find the sweet spot.

A choir usually balances itself. Well, except if there's lack of tenors. Good starting point is about 3 metres high and maybe 1 or 2 metres behind the conductor.

[joelpatterson]

Ibid.

[RobAnderson]

The 4011's in ORTF through the API would probably be dynamite if the room is decent.

As a previous poster mentioned, the choir will balance itself. It is up to you to capture the blend. Move the mics back and forth until you find a nice blend of room and voices, as well as up and down until the front row integrates nicely with the back rows.

Sounds like a cool gig.

[mrsteaks]

The key word is "blend". That's the "choral sound". The suggestion to use the 4011's in ORTF and the API is a good one, but I might try one of the tube pre's, too, if you get a chance.

Rich Mays at Sonare does a LOT of choral recording. Perhaps he'll offer some of his wisdom to this post.

[matthewd]

One word of caution - you might find the 4011s by themselves a bit bass light.

We have been involved in two projects to regularly webcast evensong from two University College Chapels - one in Cambridge and one in Oxford. In the process of specifying a permanent installation we have had the luxury of testing leading manufacturers microphones such as Schoeps, DPA, Sennheiser, Neumann and Earthworks alongside each other. The tests were recorded through matching Mic Pres and A to D having first matched levels in the chapel using signal generators. Of course mics of this quality display subjective differences - there is nothing 'wrong' with any of them. What we did find very clearly though was that neither a single pair of omnis or cardioids were as satisfactory as an array of both. The spaced omnis didn't give such a good image which is important especially with the choir arranged in cant and dec antiphony. The cardioids as I said above lack bass which may not be a problem for certain choirs but we have to capture the organ too so this was a major factor.

We were lucky to have choral composer and recording engineer John Rutter involved who knows a thing or two about choirs. The really interesting thing was that ourselves, John and the choral director all agreed independently on the most satisfying combination. I don't really want to say what that was on here but people are welcome to contact me privately.

Matt Dilley

[RickZ]

In this recent post, Portable rig for acoustic guitar and Korg MR-1000 questions, #4 down, I uploaded a sample of a slightly larger choir, 30 voices. The room was partly carpeted.

As Matt has pointed out, cardioids are necessary if you are trying to get a realistic image. I've been encouraged to hear more posts of choir recordings that sound more intimate, versus massive cathedral reverb.

The MKH8040's do have decent bass response, from testing I've done at home, although I haven't used them for an organ recital yet.

FWIW,
Rick Z

[jerryC]

Thank you all for the replies..

I`ve been giving this some thought the last few days. Originally I wanted to have the 3 Milabs right in front of the choir. As a "spaced trio" (One in the middle and the other two aprox 3 meter out on each side) Combined with the 4011s in stereo (XY) maybe 4-5 meters in front of the choir.

Then... maybe even further back (8m?) use the M149 in omni-mode.?


But now I`m thinking maybe I should skip the Milabs and go with the 4011s as a spaced pair in front of the choir. And then use the U195s as a stereo XY aprox 4-5 meters from the choir. (And leave the M149 where I originally planned it.)

I dont know...

The problem is that I dont have much time to fiddle around and experiment with different micpositions.. (We dont have the location for more than a coupple of hours)

Any thoughts on my "plan"? (4011 spaced pair / U195 XY / M149 omni)

[mrsteaks]

Originally Posted by jerryC

Thank you all for the replies..
Any thoughts on my "plan"? (4011 spaced pair / U195 XY / M149 omni)

My thought is trouble. Keep it simple. The choir isn't large, and you want to maintain a cohesive sound. You really only need a pair, close spaced A/B or some sort of coincident/near coincident pair.

Too many mics, unless the room and your experience support it/them can wreak havoc.

[zemlin]

An ORTF pair is a good starting point for a choir that size, or even a fair bit larger. Keep it simple and clean.

[wakah]

I always use this java applet for setting up the mics (Image Assistant 2.0), then I record something and listen to it with monitor speakers. then I adjust the mic position on ear if needed. always take a pair of decent monitor speakers with you and try try to make some sort of recording booth.

[sonare]

I have not used some of the mics you listed, but the thing to aim for with choral is blend, and if the consonants are crunchy then you will have a difficult time achieving the impression of blend. Remember, this is not the same as "vocals"-- the choir is one instrument and not a collection of singers .

The Soundlux are not true pressure transducers thanks to the dual diaphragms but you can get a spacious sound with them. You might try the DPA in ORTF just in back of the conductor, and the Soundlux in omni spaced 10 feet apart and 10 feet further back and up at least 12 feet. Bring up those mics, then add the ORTF only to the point of clarity and image.

Rich