Portable rig for acoustic guitar and Korg MR-1000 questions

[Bryan T]

In the past, I used a pair of Josephson C42s, an Apogee Mini-Me, an MBox, and my iBook running Pro Tools LE for a portable recording rig. I've sold off most of that gear and want something as simple (or simpler!) for portable recording of acoustic guitar. I'm planning to get a Korg MR-1000.

How much gain do the MR-1000's built-in preamps have? Would there be any issues using one of these with a stereo ribbon mic? Would I need an external preamp for something like the Royer SF-12?

I want to have a setup that is portable, fool-proof, and that sounds great for solo acoustic guitar. What would you do in my situation?

Thanks for any help,
Bryan

[Baithak]

Hi Bryan:

The gain on the lo-gain setting is adequate for most condensor mics. My experiment with dynamic and ribbon mics has not been that successful because the mic input needs to be switched to the hi-gain position and it becomes noisy. If you have to ue a ribbon, use the R-122 which I use in a pair quite often with the MR-1000 with really good results.

If you want a bit of the higher end of the frequency range also, you can always go a CMC 6/MK4 or MK41 combo and they have also given me great results on a variety of accoustic instruments. For a lot less, the Geffel mics have a good reputation but I have not used them enough to recommend them.

As has been vouched for many times on this forum, the MR-1000 is a freaking best buy in the portable two track recorder category.

Good luck,
Baithak

[hughesmr]

I've had good luck with Gefell M300 on solo acoustic guitar. At the same price point, the new Sennheiser 8040s are definitely worth considering.

[RickZ]

I recorded a choral concert recently with MKH8040 pair on a stereo bar, aimed about 90 degrees apart, ie 45 deg right/left. Mic stand was about 3 feet behind conductor who was about 15 feet from the 35 voice choir.

From MR-1000, copied .dff files to computer, used AudioGate to convert to 96/32IEEEFloat. Used PSP Xenon in Sound Forge to adjust level, and top off loud peaks, of which there is only one in this particular piece.

r8brainPro for SRC to 44.1/16, then SForge used to create the .mp3.

This choir works very hard to make text understood, I've generally preferred closer micing to capture that. Many choral people prefer vast expansive reverb for their choral works, but unless the mics are close enough to get the words, it becomes a lot of la la la, and ooo, ooo, ooo, to my ears.

FWIW,
Rick Z

[Shadow_7]

I've been playing with my unit a bit. Using Avenson STO-2's, I recorded a drum and bugle corps (large and LOUD brass ensemble) with the gain on [L]ow and the gain knobs at 8:30(3rd dash above zero, 4 of 21 dashes). To keep even the loud parts at / near / below -6 on the gauge thing. Normally this ensemble performs in conjunction with a drumline so I'll probably need to step it down even more when I finally get to record the entire ensemble.

For reference on my Mobile Pre the Avenson mics were at about 6.5 of 27 dots, where an AT4033a was at about 1.5 of 27 dots for the same ensemble. When I get more towards my dream gear, I'll likely need attenuation, and/or an external preamp. The Avensons are great mics, but they lack the transient detail of an LDC for distant sources.

I should probably post a clip, but I'll refrain until I get permission to do so from the source. It's a 501(c)3 and right to arrange/perform copyrights are a touchy subject. Which makes them very hesitant to publish media content.

[squeegybug]

Bryan, I record acoustic guitar, dobro, mountain dulcimer, and mandolin quite a bit. From reading/hearing the helpful posts and samples here in Remote forum, I bought a pair of 8040 last week and heard the most natural sounding recordings I have made of those instruments. Even a single in mono is excellent. They live up to their reputation, no doubt. I might try to upload something when I get a chance. Sorry I don't know the Korg but I can't imagine any problems using these mics with just about any recorder that has reasonably decent preamps.

FWIW I have owned/used Schoeps CMC621, Avenson STO-2, Sony C48, M149, R84, Sanken CU41 and CU44X, Gefell M300 and M296, AT4051a and others on these instruments, and the 8040 is preferable to me over all of those. Also good on vocals.

Besides the fine sound, they are so small and simple to place (with nice off-axis behavior), reasonable cost, easy gain requirements, etc., makes for a good all around performer for live and studio.

Steve

[hughesmr]

Originally Posted by Shadow_7

I've been playing with my unit a bit. Using Avenson STO-2's, I recorded a drum and bugle corps (large and LOUD brass ensemble) with the gain on [L]ow and the gain knobs at 8:30(3rd dash above zero, 4 of 21 dashes).

What corps, may I ask? At all days?

[Bryan T]

Thanks for all of the help so far. I think I'm set on getting the Korg, but I'm still wavering on the microphones. Every time I think I've decided what to get, I talk myself into something different. For some reason I am drawn to the idea of doing mid/side recording, perhaps with ribbon microphones. I'm not really sure why, as I've never used either on acoustic guitars before. I love the Royer 121 on electric guitar and would like something that has that same quality of tone - it seems to hear what I hear coming from the speaker - but for acoustic guitar.

I want a very realistic recording (not 'vintage sounding' and not overly bright) and I want the setup to be as simple as possible (a stereo mic would be preferred to a pair, for example, and I'd like to avoid external preamps). Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Bryan

[hughesmr]

A stereo mic is going to limit your options. You'll get XY and that's about it. A nice stereo pair of cards will get you XY plus many variations of near-coincident techniques, and even a little A/B isn't out of the question.

And if you want to skip external preamps, I'd say ribbons are out ... unless you spring for a SF24 (>$4k). [I don't remember off-hand, but you might have to run 48V when using the Korg's pres.] I'd still say to look into the 8040s ... I have a pr of 8020 and they are outstanding mics, and they put out a really hot signal so not much preamp gain is required.

If you really crave a ribbon sound, many like the Beyer M160/130 M/S combo: Beyerdynamic M130 & M160 Bundle | Sweetwater.com. Not too expensive ($1300) and that leaves you $$ for an AEA TRP so you can do the ribbons right.

Would you be doing M/S decoding in post or on location?

[Bryan T]

Originally Posted by hughesmr

Would you be doing M/S decoding in post or on location?

In post, which makes me worry that I'll screw up the microphone placement if I'm using a pair of mics. Of course, the other option is to add a pre that does M/S, but that is starting to complicate things more than I want.

I was initially draws to a mic like the Shure VP88 which outputs a M/S encoded signal, but I'm not sure it is what I'm looking for (noise, frequency response, etc.).

If I don't go M/S, I'll probably get a pair of cardioids and do either an XY or ORTF setup. I did XY with the Josephson C42's on my last CD and it came out pretty well. I just think I can do better. The new Senns look great (but pricey!), so I might try the Beyerdynamic MC930s. Of course, my thoughts seem to change every few hours.

Bryan

[Shadow_7]

Originally Posted by hughesmr

What corps, may I ask? At all days?

Frontier DBC from Dallas, TX. An all-age corps, so weekends only. No All Days, or 9 to 9's, or whatever they call it these days. It came out rather nice. Aside from omni pattern mics not having much of a stereo image. And the early season clams. I'll probably record the home team (Austin Stars) this weekend if we get off the drill field and into some ensemble time.

I'll probably need some more detailed mics eventually. The Avenson STO-2's have a good all around sound to them, but they're a little weak on the low lows. And don't seem to have all of that detail I felt like I got with an LDC. Nice mics, with a nice sound, well suited for the medium. But I don't feel like I'm gaining anything if I go higher than 96/24. And arguably higher than 48/24. Not that I'll ever get some Simpson Model A's, but some 8040's might be nice.

[Bryan T]

After thinking this over for a few days, I think I've reached a decision. I'm going to go with the Korg for recording. For mics, I think I'll get an AKG 414 and a Beyerdynamic MC930. That'll let me try out a number of different mic positions, including the standard SDC at the neck and LDC at the body, as well as M/S. I'd love the 8040 mics, but they are just too expensive.

Do you think that'll work well?

Bryan

[Shadow_7]

It really depends on what you want to record and where. I've been pretty lustfull of the sE Titans. But for my uses (outdoors with high wind) they're not as desireable as others. The Korg is very usefull as long as you don't need more than two tracks. With my current mics I'd like to mix them with an LDC to compensate for the low low's. But the Korg only has two channels.

Being a brass player, I like the mics that actually sound like the source being recorded better. Maybe not as detailed and lacking on other respects. But as long as what gets played back resembles the source I'm a happy camper. In the meantime I've gone through several mics to NOT get what I'm after. With my Avenson STO-2's I'm a happy camper, but there's still room for growth. AKA Omni + distance != Optimal.