M/S with non matched ribbons?

[dannygold]

Has anyone tried M/S with a (hyper) cardiod ribbon mic (M160) and a figure 8 ribbon (just about any ribbon BUT the M160)? How does it work? Does it sound OK since the freqs responses aren't the same?

[staudio]

While not two ribbons, I have used a MS array of a AKG 414 as cardioid mid, and Royer 122 as figure 8 side and it worked well.

[wakah]

I thought ribbon mics only had figure eight patterns
and if I'm wrong, why won't you try it. It will probably work altough using identical mics will be better.

[dannygold]

Originally Posted by wakah

I thought ribbon mics only had figure eight patterns
and if I'm wrong, why won't you try it. It will probably work altough using identical mics will be better.

You're wrong. The M160 and M260 have hyper cardiod. I would try it, if I had an M260. I have a figure 8 ribon and am thinking of getting the M260. Just looking for thoughts on this application. OK?

[Tom H]

I always thought the M130 would make a matching pair with a M160... anyway I also used different fig8's and cardioids for this application and never considered an "exact" match really that important in M/S.

[extendedplay]

Danny, I used to use either a M160 or M260 and a Royer R121 with great results. The source would determine if I was using the 160 or 260. The 160 isn't as big in the low end but is more extended on top.
I have since switched to using the Shure VP88 mostly out of ease of use. I usually am doing M-S for drum tracking (room mics), though there are occasions that I'll do some acoustic guitar micing and for that I'm using Blue Bottles with B-0 and B-2 capsules.
I see that you are thinking of picking up a M260. I think this is an underrated microphone. Try to find an older one, as Beyer has made adjustments to the frequency curve, not in a good way.
Steve McDonald

[seaneldon]

All you need for M/S recording is one cardioid mic, and one figure of eight mic. They do not need to be the same microphone (or even the same TYPE of microphone). Hell, I've used omni's for mid before and that's worked as well!

Most of the M/S recording I do is with different microphones doing mid and side and 95% of it sounds great. The effect is still there, even if you're not using the same exact microphone. The only "bad" thing about doing this in my eyes is that it takes an extra few minutes to set up than just using a single-point stereo mic that you can rotate into M/S.

Experiment. It's worth it.

[leddy]

My understanding is that in the process of M/S, the math works out so that the mics actually become a matched pair so to speak.

I have used an Earthworks omni for the mid and a Beyer M130 for the side with deecent results.

[Roland]

With MS you can use pretty much anything as a centre mic, obviously the response of the centre mic as compared with the response of the side mic will have an effect, that can lead to endless choices and possibilities. What IMHO is important is that the response on both sides of the fig 8 mic are equal, for example, I wouldn't personally use a Royer mono mic as a side mic for that reason.

My understanding is that in the process of M/S, the math works out so that the mics actually become a matched pair so to speak.

MS is also known as Sum and Difference for that reason.

Regards


Roland

[Karl Jackson]

Originally Posted by staudio

While not two ribbons, I have used a MS array of a AKG 414 as cardioid mid, and Royer 122 as figure 8 side and it worked well.

Hmmm... Doesn't the front side of the R122 sound different than the back side? I'm curious to know whether you've heard any differences between L and R when using the R122 as your S mic.

kj

[Karl Jackson]

Originally Posted by Roland

What IMHO is important is that the response on both sides of the fig 8 mic are equal, for example, I wouldn't personally use a Royer mono mic as a side mic for that reason

You beat me to it thumbsup

[staudio]

Originally Posted by Karl Jackson

Hmmm... Doesn't the front side of the R122 sound different than the back side? I'm curious to know whether you've heard any differences between L and R when using the R122 as your S mic.

kj

With the Royer mics the differences in front/back frequency response become unnoticeable at distances of more than six feet. Because the array was at least 15 feet away from the ensemble I could not detect any imbalance in the stereo field.

[Roland]

Originally Posted by staudio

With the Royer mics the differences in front/back frequency response become unnoticeable at distances of more than six feet. Because the array was at least 15 feet away from the ensemble I could not detect any imbalance in the stereo field.

With the nature of it being stereo and an MS setup you would not likely hear an imbalance in the stereo field, it would most likely be similar to applying a couple of db eq to one speaker channel. Distance would have nothing to do with it as the Royer achieves a presence boost by accoustic means (there is a difference in the grid that side of the mic, deliberately engineered to give a "brighter" option). To my understanding the stereo Royers do not share this characteristic.

Regards


Roland

[staudio]

Originally Posted by Roland

With the nature of it being stereo and an MS setup you would not likely hear an imbalance in the stereo field, it would most likely be similar to applying a couple of db eq to one speaker channel. Distance would have nothing to do with it as the Royer achieves a presence boost by accoustic means (there is a difference in the grid that side of the mic, deliberately engineered to give a "brighter" option). To my understanding the stereo Royers do not share this characteristic.

Regards


Roland

Why does the back of the R-121 sound different than the front?

Our R-series mics have a patented offset ribbon design, created to help them do a better job of handling high SPL’s. Because the ribbon is in a different physical space when you use the back side of the mic, there is a slight tonal difference between the two sides (see Recording With The Back Side). This only takes place at close distances – at distances of more than 3 feet, both sides of the mic sound identical. At three feet or less, the back side will be a little brighter than the front, which can be nice for vocals, acoustic guitars, and other applications.

SF-series mics use a traditional design – the ribbon is centered and the front and back sides sound the same at all distances.


In any case I have not noticed any tonal difference between the sides when used for distant MS work. Of course perceptions may vary.

Best of luck.