Madrigals in Thompson Chapel/Williams College

[joelpatterson]

A'capella singers in the vast vaulted cathedral-- ceilings easily 60 feet high, pretty ornate woodwork up there, too. This group, The Elizabethans, boasts a long history at Williams-- of course, the membership changes as people graduate, but the passion for this kind of singing is enduring and ageless. There's just something about it...


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[Corran]

Simply stunning. I have the most trouble with choir recordings, especially in that god-awful setup that is a C on its side, with the piano facing the choir. This is great though. The definition on every singer is fantastic. Not much reverb but it works.

Signal chain plz?

[joelpatterson]

Originally Posted by Corran

Signal chain plz?

The group is splayed around two Sputniks in two semi-circles... my set of Earthworks hoisted high in the straosphere, and then an Avant CK-40 leaning in from the side. Everything running through Sytek pre's.

Mixdown is my patented technique-- each stereo pair goes through an aux that has an EQ, and you just keep juggling little boostings and cuttings until it all sounds clear. If you force yourself to listen in mono, it won't sound clear until it really is clear. And then you just jockey the levels around with the faders... and then when it all finally sounds good, YOU STOP! YOU STOP BEFORE YOU START TO SCREW IT UP!

[Corran]

Cool, sounds like a good plan.

I think I seriously underestimate the difference in quality pres. I'm sure those Syteks translate everything much better than the M-audio DMP-3 pre I have or the onboard pres on the Korg recorder (D888). But instead of buying some channels of pres I keep getting more mics. It's an addiction

[joelpatterson]

You need a serious lecture from your Sweetwater rep!

[Corran]

More like a serious lecture with the loan department at my credit union, then the Sweetwater dude.

Well sorry to meander away from the conversation...

[David Spearritt]

This is way too close for my taste and for the tradition of this music. There is no blend, with individual voices sticking out like beacons.

The group is splayed around two Sputniks in two semi-circles... my set of Earthworks hoisted high in the straosphere, and then an Avant CK-40 leaning in from the side.

Stratospheric? I cannot hear any significant use of the room sound at all. Forgive me for being so critical.

[joelpatterson]

Originally Posted by David Spearritt

Forgive me for being so critical.

As they say in basketball: no harm, no foul. Anyhoo, it's your job to be critical! That's the only way we're ever going to learn and grow.


This is one of those cases we'll agree to disagree. In my world-view, it's important to be able to hear the singers, to relate to the emotions they're trying to get across, to vicariously identify with them, I guess. To be able to understand the words.

When it's all too distant and whooshy, I lose interest, it starts to sound like a 'chorus' patch on a synth, and not real live people with something to say.

[jacktadoussac]

Joel, you're an officer and a gentleman, a sound engineering genius, a follower of that less is more philosophy, a true mountain man. The recording sounds very good.

When you said you were using Sputniks, is that a special make of mike, or a special configuration of mikes?

[Corran]

Sputniks are mics made by M-audio.

I like the cathedral, 6-sec reverb tale on Gregorian monophonic chant recordings. But madrigals, though secular, seem to translate better without that huge-church reverb tail. They are much more contrapuntal than the monophonic chant so recordings with tons of 'verb get unintelligible real quick, imo of course.

[hughesmr]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

This is one of those cases we'll agree to disagree. In my world-view, it's important to be able to hear the singers, to relate to the emotions they're trying to get across, to vicariously identify with them, I guess. To be able to understand the words.

When it's all too distant and whooshy, I lose interest, it starts to sound like a 'chorus' patch on a synth, and not real live people with something to say.

I would agree with David in regard to the individual voices sticking out. With close miking, you run the danger of this if the singers haven't got their 'ensemble' sound completely under control.

Backing off somewhat (not much) will let the room help their voices blend better if they aren't doing it themselves as well as might be desired ... and no one is suggesting you back off into the next county! You certainly don't need or want to lose understandability ... it's a big balanacing act between maintaining clarity and creating an 'ensemble'.

I might point out your earlier fine work on the Brahms Requiem ... that was a very nice cohesive choral sound, and everything completely understadable (if you speak German). I know it was a large chorus and this is a smaller group, but all the same, it can be done...

I have a recurring choral gig that presents me with big challenges due to the venue. It's a 70-voice collegiate women's chorus, very well trained and coached. The problem is that they regularly perform in a chapel that has a semi-circular front, and their stalls are right up against this semi-spherical shell. The result is that almost no matter where you set up, you get a particular individual voice or two reflecting off the wall/ceiling into the mics like a laser beam. Move 6 inches, some other voice laser beams into the mics. It's a bear to handle!