'Cello Mic for Onstage?

[Ricey]

Greets, Slutz.

I'm playing 'cello next month on a couple of shows and need a good way to mic it.

i did a couple shows last month and the monitor feedback was a problem - not a great 'cello and i'm not a great 'cellist - the audience could hear me better than i could. read: NIGHTMARE!

any ideas? i'll be in NYC tomorrow for a couple of weeks so i could pick something up...

Cheers!

Victor

[loujudson]

I always repeat myself, but I LOVE my Rode NT3s on stage as well as in studio. Thye have a rich clear sound, and hypercardioid so you can get better gain before fedback.

Less than $220, and made in Ausralia, not China...

Or a good clipon mic, such as the AT or AKG willl help.

L

[Ricey]

is the NT3s a condenser? i haven't tried that yet... thanks!

i did try a lavalier mic in foam, plugged into the f hole like a tampon. not a lovely sound, lots of low-mid feedback.

[bongo]

I would put this on the bridge and aim it at the body directly under the strings.

[loujudson]

That clip mic is exactly what I meant. I have four of them and they do amazing things!

Yes, NT3 is a true condenser, 3/4" diaphragm, a great mic:

RØDE Microphones - NT3

L

[David Rick]

Originally Posted by Ricey

Greets, Slutz.

I'm playing 'cello next month on a couple of shows and need a good way to mic it.

i did a couple shows last month and the monitor feedback was a problem - not a great 'cello and i'm not a great 'cellist - the audience could hear me better than i could. read: NIGHTMARE!

any ideas? i'll be in NYC tomorrow for a couple of weeks so i could pick something up...

Victor,

The slutty solution is as follows:

For arco stuff, a Beyer M-160 ribbon mic, aimed at the bridge. This will give you good gain before feedback, without sounding scratchy. Since this is a ribbon mic, your preamp will need a decent amount of gain. If your preamp is on stage, you have the option to run the line level signal through a reverb. You'll want a long 'verb setting for ballads, and a medium-to-short one for fast stuff.

For pizz, use your favorite piezo pickup into a high-Z preamp (1 Megohm or greater), EQ the heck out of it, and compress to taste. Run the result through a footswitch, so you can disable it when playing arco.

In situations with high stage levels, you may want to send the mic feed only to the house, and split off the pickup signal between the EQ and the compressor for the stage monitor feed.

I used to play cello in a celtic band, changing off between fiddle-ish stuff and bass lines, hence the two signal chains.

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording

[valleysound]

I've used an ATM350 clip on mic. I clipped it to the bridge and move it over the sound hole until I got the sound I needed.

[fifthcircle]

DPA 4061- no contest. Mount it under the string between the tailpiece and the bridge using the DPA mounts. Because it is mounted so close, you get tons of gain before feedback and tons of isolation on the mic. One of the few mics I'll use that close to a string instrument without EQ.

Another option that I've head that sounds better than it should is a countryman isomax microphone placed lightly on the top of the bridge with double stick foam pad tape. This is what the Kronos Quartet uses for their clipon mics and had I not head it with my own ears, I wouldn't have believed it sounded good.

--Ben

[John Hedger]

Another option would be to try a Swiis made Schertler contact pickup ...SChERtLER - Audio Transducer

I have the DYN-G for guitar, which fixes onto the instrument with putty...and if well placed, gives a very natural guitar sound. Most Schertler pickups retail for around $400. They can be easily plugged into any xlr mic input. Generally I have found feedback not to be a big problem in using these with guitar.

I know many of the top concert professional concert classical guitarists, like the LA Guitar Quartet and The Assad Duo use the Neumann KM 184 mic, which sell for about $850 each.

John Hedger

[jnorman]

scott fraser does live sound for the kronos quartet, and he uses km150s on all four players. in the studio, i have had good luck with dpa 4011, akg c481 and schoeps cmc64.

[ESL]

If you throw a lot of rosin, you'll probably want to put the windscreen on it.
If you'll be playing in a high stage volume situation, try adhering the mic to the inside of the cello and covering the f-hole if you need more isolation. It will sound more cello-like than a pickup and will perhaps only need a little bit of EQ to tame any wolfing and/or "mic inside a small chamber sound."

I also think that an MK41 can do a good job in non high stage volume settings.

[Mr P]

I have used these on stages with monitors in front of the PA with decent GBF. I used some baffles rather than EQ to help me achieve this (was mixing FOH and MONS off the same board).

[fifthcircle]

Originally Posted by jnorman

scott fraser does live sound for the kronos quartet, and he uses km150s on all four players.

Scott is a good friend of mine and he's explained the rig to me. He uses the Isomax microphones for the pieces where a close sound and lots of "dig" is needed, he uses the countryman. For the more acoustic stuff, he uses the Neumanns.

I recorded a performance of Steve Reich's Different trains this past fall and I brought in Scott to mix FOH since he knew the piece from his work with Kronos. On this performance, we used KM140's on as mics with the Isomax to provide dig and clarity. If you don't know the piece, there are extensive sound effects and a 2nd quartet part that the live group has to play along with. It is pretty complicated.

I wouldn't wanted to have had to work with only one of the sets of mics- both were absolutely needed. The description I provided above is how he mounted the countryman mics. I also mentioned who it was only to show that it isn't completely crazy to use tape on a stringed instrument. Of course, beware and be careful. The tape never stayed on the instrument for longer than a rehearsal or a half of a show, but it was absolutely used.

Back to the subject at hand, though, I still spec DPA 4061 mics for strings whenever I need a close string sound when plenty of volume is involved.

--Ben

[thedoner]

I had to deal with this just 2 weeks ago.
I was recording a 5 piece acoustic folk/rock band. The instrumentation was Drum kit, El Bass, AC Gtr, Vox-2x, and Cello, with no pickup (as in, no DI).. The band was using wedges and I was really worried about feedback but didn't want to compromise on the recorded sound either. I normally try to avoid double miking, but this is one instance where it really made sense. I put up a Heil PR20 (Dynamic) for FOH and monitors, and a Soundelux U195 (LDC condenser) for recording only...I recorded both actually, just to be safe.
That took care of the feedback issue. Luckily, the band was pretty mellow and they didn't need their monitors too loud. The FOH/monitor guy was also a friend of mine, and as such was very accomodating, The bleed into the 195 from other instruments was manageable if not excellent, and the tone was pretty nice as well. It would probably have been even better with some of the other mics mentioned above, but its what I had available.
Best of luck,
-Doner

[lordwesley]

Maybe go for a pick up, you can mic it as well. That way if nothing else you should be able to monitor yourself from the pick up sound with less feedback problems and send the mic sound out front. Or you might even like the pick up sound enough to use that alone, or use it to get a bit more level but still using mostly the mic sound. Just gives you more options with less feedback potential.

[Gerax]

I work with several string players, from traditional classical quartets to folk and other ensembles. The best results I have obtained so far are with the DPA 4061 mini mics. I had one of the quartets I often work with purchase one for each member, and there's also a double bassist that I had got one. Everybody gave me excellent reports on the mics. I used them to record a live gig (amplified) of a "very loud" Klezmer quartet (that is violin, clarinet, double bass and accordion) and all of them were miced up with the DPAs, which I used as FOH mics and also as recording mics. Excellent sound, very natural even though the mic capsules were extremely close to the instruments. I also did a test once, mounting one of the 4061 on a violin and have the player play in fornt of my studio speakers at a fairly high listening volume. Of course I had bleeding of the speakes in the mic, but I had zero feedback, even from such a close distance (approx 2m). Needless to say that they really come in handy for traditional recording gigs, where I put up a nice stereo pair and use the DPAs as spots, so that the players are free to move at will, and don't have to be tied to the mic and stand to get a good focused spot, while I get a constant, natural and good spot sound that i mix in with the stereo pair as needed.

Hope this helps

L.G.

[Bob Bickerton]

I have mixed feelings about the DPA 4061s. They've worked well for me in some situations, not great in others. Depends a lot on how much level there is on stage.

My preferred choice is the Audio-Technica ATM350 (way better than the Pro 35) on fidlle and cello.

Be prepared to invest time in finding the best placement.

Bob

[Ricey]

I want to thank everyone for their replies to the thread. Just got back from tour and the difference was night and day. the two things that really made the difference were:

1 - using a SDC for the house signal instead of a dynamic mic and
2 - keeping the two mics separate - condenser FOH only and lapel mic monitor only.

i tried to get the DPA while in NYC but it had to be ordered, wasn't in stock. but those two techniques mentioned really made the difference.

thank you, thank you, thank you! soundcheck time was cut in half, intonation improved. overall experience 250% improved.

GS rules.