Suggestions for recording a 7 piece mariachi band

[decius01]

Hey all.
I am doing a recording gig with a 7 piece all female mariachi band (they are breaking up and apparently want to get something down on disk before it's gone), and am wondering if you folks can give me any suggestions on how to record these guys.

My mics:
Pearlman TM-1 (American Capsule)
AKG C414B-XLII
2x Neumann km184
2x Rode NT-5
3x Sennheiser e604
EV RE20
EV ND-868
AKG D112
Shure SM7B
4x Shure SM57
Shure SM58
2x Audio Technica Snare/Tom
2x Audio Technica Kick/Tom (I got these mics for cheap thru Craigslist, and they actually work quite well lol)

Pre's:
2x API 3124+
Great River MP-2NV
3x FMR Audio RNP

The band:
3x violin players (with the lead doing most of the vocals)
an acoustic guitar player (I believe she also sings lead at times)
a bass guitar player (it's a really fat bodied instrument, intended to be played on the street in Mexico etc- has a really big tone, but it's a very bizarre guitar)
2x trumpets

My main recording room is a converted garage into recording space (done over a really long time... like around 18 years) about 18' x 11'. I do have a small iso room and a small control room (I feel lucky to even have these things at all, small as they are). The walls are quite well treated (though, I can always use more bass traps-- hurry up and send my order over, GIK!), so I think the quality of tone in the room should be decent.

My concern lies in how I should record them- I've thought about trying to record everything in the same room, but am struggling with whether the trumpets will be too loud and bleed through everything else.
I also am trying to think of the best mic combos, as I don't wish to have to deal with major phase issues from using too many mics etc.

Thanks in advance for any and all help, guys! Sorry for the length of this post.
*Also sorry if this in the wrong category....

[decius01]

Actually, only 1 trumpet in the ensemble....

Nobody has any comments or suggestions..?
Very strange for GS indeed!

[leddy]

I'm not a pro, but I hate seeing questions go unanswered.

Have you listened to any mariachi records? That would seem like the first thing to do.

I'm certainly no marichi expert, but being that they are all acoustic instruments, I think you could treat it similar to the way you would treat acoustic jazz or bluegrass. Probably more like bluegrass.

I would think the musicians would prefer to all be in one room without headphones. If it were me, I'd start with a stereo pair and arrange the musicians (maybe marking spots on the floor with tape) around the mics until the balance is what everyone wants. Add spot mic(s) for any vocalists, and maybe one for the guitarrón (bass), though I would avoid it if you can.

Maybe the KM184's in ORTF or XY in front of the group, the RE20 on guitarrón and the SM7 for vocal? If your room is decent, a stereo pair should work well, I would think.

My $.02.

Edit: Since your only stereo pairs are cardiods, you probably would need a spot mic on the guitarrón to get enough low frequencies from the bass. Too bad you don't have omnis.

[bongo]

OK, so what's a Mariachi band doing in Vancouver!

Here's the first thing you don't do is go up to them and say:
"Hun, I don't know if you've seen one before, but this is a microphone, don't touch it."
That actually happened to a very famous all women big band I've worked with.
So don't do that.

What I would do first, is ask them how they are comfortable setting up. I would hope they would want to set up with the vocalists and guitar and bass in the middle the trumpet on one side and the strings on the other side. So you could suggest that if you are not happy with what they said.

I would mic everything fairly close. Unless it's a really dead room, there will be plenty of room sound with the violin mics alone.

I'd rather mic everything and not use some of the mic than not put them up and wish I had.

Good luck.

[Remoteness]

Open the entrance door to the space and point the trumpet towards the opened door. Place the mic just outside the door...

I've done this before when I had to record a band in a small rehearsal space and everyone wanted to be in the same room.

It worked out very well for me.

[decius01]

Thanks so much for responses guys!

Lol, I think that was part of the gimmick- "The only female mariachi band in Canada"
(They are actually quite good at what they do). They are definitely pro enough to know what to do and not do with a mic haha.

I think I will try to record everything in the same room- given that they are all acoustic instruments.

What about using my LDC's? Nobody mentioned even trying those, so it makes me wonder...

I definitely think the guitarron (thanks, leddy!) and guitar need some extra consideration, being that they're the subtlest instruments in the group.

And bongo, that is exactly the way that they do setup (from audience L to R)- violins 1, 2 and 3 (with the 3rd violin being the main vocalist).. then the guitarron, then acoustic guitar (also another lead vocalist), then trumpet.

[Sound Sorcerer]

I'm with Leddy on this one... I've done traditional Mariachi bands before and they do like play/recording in the same room; altough for trumpets they always prefer using Sennheiser's MD-441 and the EV-468 for the Guitarron...
mis 2 pesos

[decius01]

Originally Posted by Sound Sorcerer

I'm with Leddy on this one... I've done traditional Mariachi bands before and they do like play/recording in the same room; altough for trumpets they always prefer using Sennheiser's MD-441 and the EV-468 for the Guitarron...
mis 2 pesos

Unfortunately, I have neither of those mics.. (look at what I listed above)

Why would you guys not try LDC's, anyways? Are they too sensitive?
I'm ok to try anything that works.. just curious!

[decius01]

It went pretty well, I thought..!

I ended up XY-ing the violins with my km184's, using the ND-868 as well as the pickup (feeding into a Reddi) on the guitar , using a Sennheiser e604 on the trumpet (kept her in the same room-- just got her to face the wall. Funny thing is, she loved the sound! She said that usually in the studio, she's placed in an iso booth and her tone gets thin and dry sounding- but because I kept her in the same room as the band, and the room isn't so tiny, it kept her sound nice, full and even). And finally, used my c414b xlII on the lead vocalist (whomever she happened to be for the song).

There was no guitarron player... he's coming to overdub it later this week (we'll see how that turns out, ).

Thanks so much for the suggestions, guys! Helped speed things up considerably.

[Sound Sorcerer]

Great you figured it out! As long as musicians & engineer are happy it's all good!!!

[decius01]

I actually refined the recording further for the next session:

Just had the trumpet player play directly into the middle of the room (aiming at the xy), and placed her close enough to the mics so she could be heard-- but far enough away to blend well with the violins... sounded freakin' awesome! The sound was too washy and airy bouncing off of the walls.. but aiming into the room sounded fully natural and crisp.
Changed the mic for the main vocalist from the c414 xl2 to the Pearlman TM1... what a difference that made!
As is always the case, the c414 worked really well for the alto (the Pearlman, not so much), but the main singer is a tenor... and for her the TM1 just rocked (the c414, not so much).
Also tried 3 mics on the guitar... the sm7, sm57 and re20... I used the sm7, but afterwards decided I liked the ND868 (in the takes from the session before) the best for that! Next session, I'm going back to trying that mic- though, she was using a different guitar.. she had rented a really nice one, so that also made a big difference I'm sure.

Thanks for reading!
Just thought I'd share.

[Shadow_7]

Sounds like a small mariachi band. I sat in with one at a rehearsal back in college. Their arrangements had a couple of trumpet parts, and a couple of trombone parts. An interesting experience, but most of the parts were written higher / louder / faster than my college chops at that time.

[HarrisKarlin]

Just throwing this out there, I've gotten some mind-blowingly gorgeous violin recordings with just a 57. It may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I've been really happy with it in a pinch.


I haven't tried recording acoustic bass before, but I think i know the specific kind your talking about. Offhand, I'd say maybe the RE-20 on the soundhole. I'm guessing the percussion in the band comes from the click of the bass, so maybe a small diaphragm condenser around the 12th fret of the bass. You'd probably end up mixing it low, but you'd have it.

For the trumpets, I'd be pretty worried about really heavy bleed, are gobos an option?