Schoeps MK21 caps in the studio...

[wellyouneednt]

Hello,

I make very frequent use of my pair of Schoeps CMC6 MK41 mics in my room. I'm recording mostly acoustic instruments (strings, winds, percussion, acc. guitar) for soundtrack sweetening work. I love the depth/subtlety of the mids of the MK41 caps and their ability to 'isolate' the source in a natural way...very advantageous for post, and the source pans beautifully.

I am interested in hearing from MK21 users that are using the capsule for studio capture at close/medium distance (15-60 inches or so). I'm wondering if the MK21 would work well for instruments that require a bit more bass extension and/or 'bloom'.

Also...the MK41 has a very musical/useful proximity effect allowing you to work the mic placement...how much proximity effect does the MK21 have and how musical/useful is it?

I have a nice sounding treated room (mix of wood, glass, baffles, diffusers) so the room isn't necessarily a problem...I just don't want too much of it.

Due to my location, I don't have the option to experiment and return. The MK21 would be a special order item for me, so experienced opinion would be highly valued.

Much appreciated...
wellyouneednt

[John Willett]

I have not used the MK21 but is has a reputation for being a fine mic.

It is an omni and omnis have no proximity effect at all!

An omni is a pure pressure microphone and does not rely on sound entering rear ports to get a directional response - the sound will be the same at 1mm and 1m and 10m etc. - no bass tip-up at all. That's what is so good about them.

[Royer121]

Actually this is not correct. The MK21 has the characteristic of a wide cardioid and has some proximity effect. Its a mix between a pressure microphone and a gradient microphone, defined as 1/3 gradient and 2/3 pressure...a supercardioid is defined 63,5 % gradient and 36,5 % pressure.

Read here for more information:
SCHOEPS wide-cardioids

The MK21 has a wide range of use cases... :) I've seen it used as a close mic for piano, as a main mic for orchestra and also for voice.. ;)


greets
ray

[ISedlacek]

My experience: I have MK21 here but I end using MK2 in 99% of cases (recording acoustic instruments in my studio). I had MK41 here as well but did not like them much - a bit "constrained", tensed sound to my ears ... rather "shotgun" it seems.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by Royer121

Actually this is not correct. The MK21 has the characteristic of a wide cardioid and has some proximity effect. Its a mix between a pressure microphone and a gradient microphone, defined as 1/3 gradient and 2/3 pressure...a supercardioid is defined 63,5 % gradient and 36,5 % pressure.

Read here for more information:
SCHOEPS wide-cardioids

The MK21 has a wide range of use cases... :) I've seen it used as a close mic for piano, as a main mic for orchestra and also for voice.. ;)

Oops - sorry - should have checked the brochure before posting.

I'm so used to everything starting with a "2" being omni.

[Roland]

The Mk21 is a great microphone, I used three yesterday for spotting a choir at the Royal Festival Hall in London. Great mic's, really smooth, perfect for what I was doing. I would suspect that in a studio environment that the benefits would be less, in my situation I needed some degree of rear rejection, but with a wider pick-up than a normal cardiod would have afforded me. For increased bass performance and smoothness I would, (like others here have suggested) use the Mk2 Omni.

Regards


Roland

[mosrite]

The MK21 is a wonderful capsule BUT your room had better be up to scratch.

[wellyouneednt]

Thanks for the reponses.

I am aware the the MK21 is a wide cardiod and thought the pattern might be a bit more useful in the studio.

So the MK21 is not as smooth as the MK2?

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

My experience: I have MK21 here but I end using MK2 in 99% of cases (recording acoustic instruments in my studio).

Ivo, is it the pattern you find advantageous or is there a quality in the sound you prefer? I have read some of your other posts and I know you like an omni spaced pair...this can be awkward for me because for what i do, mono compatibilty is still quite important (for better or worse).

Cheers,
wellyouneednt

[Jason West]

Originally Posted by wellyouneednt

I am aware the the MK21 is a wide cardiod and thought the pattern might be a bit more useful in the studio.

So the MK21 is not as smooth as the MK2?

I did acoustic guitar recordings that compare the stereo sets of MK2,MK21, and MK41. When I recorded the tests, I ran all 6 mics simultaneously so I could use the same performance as a baseline. It was very educational to hear the differences between the caps. Unfortunately, I'm migrating web servers so the sounds files are not available for download at the moment.

For what it's worth, I prefer the MK2/MK21 over the MK41 for natural acoustic guitar. I prefer MK21 whether it's AB spacing or ORTF. The only time the MK41 sounds better is when I use it in XY configuration. But I hardly ever record in XY (too narrow a stereo image for solo guitar) so the MK41 doesn't come out often for that.

I now use the MK41 as a hihat mic on the drumset.

[bove]

Originally Posted by wellyouneednt

is it the pattern you find advantageous or is there a quality in the sound you prefer?

As compared to the MK2, the MK21 has a slight emphasis in the high frequencies. I use both, depending on what sounds best. The rear isolation can come in handy as well. In addition to the usual wide NOS ORTF, the MK21 is also quite nice as an AB pair, providing a bit of rear exclusion.

[achabloop5080]

May I ask for the technical specifications of this wide NOS/ORTF setup with MK21s?
(Capsules distance, angle, height and direction).....
Could this technique be used also in classical grand piano recording with good results?

Thank you

[Ken K]

Originally Posted by bove

As compared to the MK2, the MK21 has a slight emphasis in the high frequencies. I use both, depending on what sounds best. The rear isolation can come in handy as well. In addition to the usual wide NOS ORTF, the MK21 is also quite nice as an AB pair, providing a bit of rear exclusion.

How wide is your spacing when you use the mk21s as an AB pair?

Thanks,

Ken K

[bove]

Originally Posted by Ken K

How wide is your spacing when you use the mk21s as an AB pair?

Thanks,

Ken K

In that situation, I'd position the MK21 at exactly the same width as if it were an MK2.

[wuwei]

Originally Posted by bove

In that situation, I'd position the MK21 at exactly the same width as if it were an MK2.

Try 41 cm wide as an angle, that works good if your monitor has been set up in a correct way!