Urgent mic placement help needed

[John Brook]

I'm limited to hanging mics in an auditorium about 25ft from the front of the stage. This is an orchestra concert and the position is about 1/3 the way into the hall.

Do you recommend omnis or cardioid? What spacing? Or should I try XY from that distance.

Thanks.

[DCtoDaylight]

Originally Posted by John Brook

I'm limited to hanging mics in an auditorium about 25ft from the front of the stage. This is an orchestra concert and the position is about 1/3 the way into the hall.

Do you recommend omnis or cardioid? What spacing? Or should I try XY from that distance.

Thanks.

Forget omnis that far back - you'd get massive amounts of room sound.

Cardioids or hypercardioids would be a better bet; what you'll need to do is figure out a combination of spacing and angle that will capture sound from the orchestra without getting too much room, while also preserving an undistorted stereo image. This paper helped me a *lot* with this kind of thing, and if you could spend an hour or so with it, it would probably give you a great head start on this gig:

http://www.microphone-data.com/pdfs/Stereo%20zoom.pdf

The paper describes a couple of helpful tools you can make, but just by running a round a bit with a tape measure and doing a rough sketch on graph paper of the stage setup and where your mics will be, you can calculate the angle you need to cover; the charts on page 10 of the Williams paper can help you find a good starting point for mic separation and angle.

Ideally you would want to experiment during rehearsals to find the optimum combination, but the Williams approach is a very good way to get yourself in the ballpark, and if you don't have the ability to be there for rehearsals, it's a good way to take your best shot. At a guess you'll probably be looking at fairly wide spacing (maybe in the 45cm range for cardioids, less for hypers) and something on the order of 90 or 100 degree angle between the mics, but you'll want to know the width of the orchestra when they're set up onstage and the distance from the stage lip to the front of the orchestra, as well as the actual distance between the stage and your mic spot.

Good luck!

[John Brook]

Thanks so much for the reference and suggestions.

I really don't want to put a mic stand on stage, but I may have to. I can put a XY or Blumlein pair about 15 ft in front of the orchestra and up fairly high, and then use the hanging mics as outriggers.

I have 5 cardioids at my disposal (3 TLM193s and 2 AKG 480 series) plus a matched pair of AKG 414's.

[boojum]

I have used the Williams recommended arrays for a while now. They do not help me too much in my venues as they mostly are saloons, but they do focus me on the performers, get the performers spread evenly across the soundstage and also screen out some of the audience.

I have used the Williams arrays for choral work and they are great. To say that ORTF or NOS or DIN is the way to go is to neglect a couple of factors: depth and width. ;o) Those are important. At times you will wind up with ORTF, NOS or DIN. But there are many other possibilities.

Cheers

PS - I would use my two best cards in a Williams.

[Karl Jackson]

If I were in this situation I would try two things, in this order:

1. Use fishline to pull the mics to the correct distance.
2. If this isn't possible use an MS pair. Choose the mid mic carefully. Some well regarded recordings have been made at a distance in nice halls (Kavi Alexander), but at 35 feet you're further out from the stage than most would choose to be. A nice sounding dry hall might allow you to use a figure 8, but my intuition tells me you might need to use something like an MK41 for your mid mic.

kj

[John Brook]

I notice that Williams information pretty much parallels DPA mic university material (or the other way around, actually).

I can't use a fishline, unfortunately, but in studying Williams for a while, believe I will go with the spaced cardioid pair, angled per his recommendation, and see what it sounds like.

Thanks all.

John

[DCtoDaylight]

Sounds like a darn good approach! Those 480s would probably do a nice job in that setting.

Really glad this was helpful - I'm glad to have a chance to pass along a tiny bit of what other people here have given me. Enjoy your session!

[John Willett]

With that limitation I would hang an MS setup.

[John Brook]

Thanks for the great advice. Fortunately, they had a second catwalk which they failed to tell me about, and it got my mics close enough. I used the splayed cardioid pattern per Williams, and it sounded great.