Noob PT/DAW question - writing automation during recording

[Bixby]

I've got a decent level of experience with PT LE, but have thus far been pulling in tracks recorded elsewhere and then mixing/editing.

Now I have reason to want to record automation while recording audio in PT LE. I was surprised to find that I wasn't able to do it how I thought I would, and looked in the manual to find it says you can write automation during playback (I assume this means not while recording).

So - is it possible to record automation while recording audio in PT, and if so, how?

Also, are there other DAWs that allow this?

Thanks!

[E.rOk.stA]

Be a little more specific. I can probably help you if you give me a scenario.

[Bixby]

Let's say I'm recording 4 tracks of mono audio into PTLE.

While I'm recording, I want to write volume automation.

As soon as I record-enable a track, the automation parameters get grayed-out, as if to say this is not possible.

[BLUElightCory]

Pro Tools disables all automation on any track in the "record ready" state. If you really wanted to do this, you could bus the track you're recording onto to a second track; riding the fader on the first track would affect the level of the audio on the second track.

I guess I'm not really sure why you'd want to do this though, as there is no clear advantage to doing it this way in Pro Tools (actually, it's disadvantageous in a few ways). Why not record the audio and then perform the automation rides on the track during playback or mixing? That way you're not doing anything potentially destructive to your audio, and you can focus on just getting good levels and performance during recording, and then get the automation right afterwards.

[Kadden Heart]

guess the only way i can think:

if you're only going ot be doing a few at a time, route them to a different audio track and use the source tracks fader to move it.

i.e

snare top
input: analog 1 (or whatever)
output: bus 1

snare top automated
input: bus 1
output: interface 1-2

?make sense?

[Bixby]

Originally Posted by BLUElightCory

Pro Tools disables all automation on any track in the "record ready" state.

Anybody know why this is? Is it true for both LE and HD? So all these people with ICONs are only using them in playback mode, not during actual tracking?

Originally Posted by BLUElightCory

I guess I'm not really sure why you'd want to do this though, as there is no clear advantage to doing it this way in Pro Tools (actually, it's disadvantageous in a few ways). Why not record the audio and then perform the automation rides on the track during playback or mixing? That way you're not doing anything potentially destructive to your audio, and you can focus on just getting good levels and performance during recording, and then get the automation right afterwards.

Because I want to do a rough (or not so rough) mix during the recording. I've got assistants to worry about levels. It surprises me that PT can't do this. Why do I have to track to PT but use an external mixer to do a 2-mix? PT already has the mixer...

I feel like I must be missing something.

But this brings up my second question - are there any DAWs that are capable of this?

Thanks again.

[Bixby]

Originally Posted by BLUElightCory

Why not record the audio and then perform the automation rides on the track during playback or mixing? That way you're not doing anything potentially destructive to your audio, and you can focus on just getting good levels and performance during recording, and then get the automation right afterwards.

How is writing automation potentially destructive? Non-destructive, no?

[Bixby]

Originally Posted by Kadden Heart

guess the only way i can think:

if you're only going to be doing a few at a time, route them to a different audio track and use the source tracks fader to move it.

?make sense?

Sure, but that's destructive, in that I'll have the original raw tracks (good) but also modified audio via the bussed tracks (not bad), but still no automation to then be able to go back and edit if need be (bad).

[Kadden Heart]

Originally Posted by Bixby

Sure, but that's destructive, in that I'll have the original raw tracks (good) but also modified audio via the bussed tracks (not bad), but still no automation to then be able to go back and edit if need be (bad).

true.
guess you'll have to deal with automating after the fact

automating while recording would require the automation to be written after the audio has passed that point (at least a few ms maybe?) which could potentially harbor some problems.
it also stands to be said that the faders in PT don't control the actual input just the playback, ,..i forget where i was going with that,... perhaps it's still to buy an SSL and ride the small faders to tape

[jmarkham]

just out of curiosity, why would you want to record automation on the
way in? my full attention is on making sure it's getting to disk
as cleanly as possible .. the last thing I want to be doing is recording
automation.
perhaps i don't understand your workflow.

jeff

[Bixby]

Originally Posted by Kadden Heart

automating while recording would require the automation to be written after the audio has passed that point (at least a few ms maybe?) which could potentially harbor some problems.

Isn't automation independent of the audio? The only thing they share is some sort of time reference?

[Bixby]

Originally Posted by jmarkham

just out of curiosity, why would you want to record automation on the
way in? my full attention is on making sure it's getting to disk
as cleanly as possible .. the last thing I want to be doing is recording
automation.
perhaps i don't understand your workflow.

jeff

This would be in a live recording situation. Currently I'll record multis to an HD24 and do a 2mix with a 01v96. That's great, but if I want to go back and edit my mix, I need to recreate it completely (usually in PT). It would be great to have a rough mix already done, so it's just a matter of doing some touch automation to fix whatever rough spots there are.

[Kadden Heart]

Originally Posted by Bixby

Isn't automation independent of the audio? The only thing they share is some sort of time reference?

i think it's some sort of internal SMPTE, but the movements would still be at least a tiny bit behind the actual audio,..not that it would matter i'm sure.

i'm not sure but i believe reaper writes automation in ready-record
i'll check, perhaps you can track through reaper if it does this?

[BLUElightCory]

I think you're making it more complicated than it needs to be.

Record the track first, enable automation, play back the song and perform the automation rides during playback. It sounds like you want to write automation while recording to save time, but this method will only take a few extra minutes to do.

What I meant by destructive was that if you're using one of the aforementioned methods to manipulate the input gain on your tracks (to have 'automation while recording' instead of during playback) you're permanently affecting the audio track, which can paint you into a corner really quickly. It's much safer to just get a good take and perform your automation rides after the fact.

[espasonico]

It should be easier. If he wants to record automation, let him do it!

What I would try is to bus the output of the track you are recording to an Aux and record the automation on the Aux ( like an VCA ). When you finish the pass you can leave it like that or copy the automation form the Aux to the track. This way the audio recorded won´t be affected but will follow automation on playback.

[Kadden Heart]

Originally Posted by espasonico

It should be easier. If he wants to record automation, let him do it!

What I would try is to bus the output of the track you are recording to an Aux and record the automation on the Aux ( like an VCA ). When you finish the pass you can leave it like that or copy the automation form the Aux to the track. This way the audio recorded won´t be affected but will follow automation on playback.

there ya go.
guess we never thought of that,.eas way to automate the audio non-destructively.
you can cpy the automation over, while not immediate that's a decent method
+1

[JonesH]

Vote for this feature on IdeaScale:
Improve automation while recording - Pro Tools Feedback Community - by IdeaScale

[pkautzsch]

Originally Posted by jmarkham

just out of curiosity, why would you want to record automation on the
way in? my full attention is on making sure it's getting to disk
as cleanly as possible .. the last thing I want to be doing is recording
automation.
perhaps i don't understand your workflow.

A situation where one would need this is a live recording with the client wanting to take home a (rough or even finished) mix right after the show. That's what I sometimes do with classical concerts. Usually they do want some changes a week later, like "can you give me a little more flute in bar 237?" - yes, of course I can: open session, go to bar 235, auto touch, play, grab that virtual flute fader and raise by 2dB, press stop in bar 239, client happy.

Originally Posted by Bixby

Anybody know why this is? Is it true for both LE and HD? So all these people with ICONs are only using them in playback mode, not during actual tracking?

They might do that bussing thing. More or less like a "split" desk with the "input" section to the left, and the "monitor" or "mix" section to the right. (This will double the number of inserts and sends as well, which WAS an issue before PT8...)

But this brings up my second question - are there any DAWs that are capable of this?

I'm doing the aforementioned workflow in my old Nuendo 2. I guess Logic should do this too, but not sure.

[Shadowgames]

Originally Posted by Bixby

Also, are there other DAWs that allow this?

I've used this set up with Pyramix (native), running on a laptop mixing with a Tascam US2400.

It works very well, especially when you want to touch up a few fader moves after the show.

[Don S]

Originally Posted by jmarkham

just out of curiosity, why would you want to record automation on the
way in? my full attention is on making sure it's getting to disk
as cleanly as possible .. the last thing I want to be doing is recording
automation.
perhaps i don't understand your workflow.

jeff

Saves time mixing later! If I'm doing a multitrack recording, I try to get the levels to tape near what I would mix in post. Mostly between my main pair and wings. Another advantage would be if you liked what heard in the cans and liked your 2 track mix, but want to change one little thing, it's not a big deal later.

[klaukholm]

It is very annoying that automation cannot be recorded while in record.
This is a major limitiation in my opinion.