Location recording - Mic Choice?

[reflekshun]

I'm doing an on location speech/presentation recording for a financial consulting company (oh boy how exciting :p) who want to shoot it as a video and record the audio separately using a me+mics+laptop. The speech will be done only in front of the camera, in a small room fairly well isolated from background office noise.

I would have to mount the mics probably above the person facing downwards to avoid getting in the shot. (not sure what mic configuration works best for this!). Audio is probably going to end up mono for online streaming.

The choices I have are:

- Rode Nt1a (Large Diaphram Condenser)
- Studio Projects C4 Stereo Pair (Pencil Condensers)
- Shure SM57 (probably not a good idea here?)

Small or large diaphragm more suited to this situation do you think?

Any advice, suggestions or pointers in any vague way would be very much appreciated!

THANKYOU anyone who can help me out!

[danijel]

preferably use your best mic, which is nt1a in your case, but it's going to be hard to mount it that high because of it's weight, or because you'll hit the ceiling. i suppose you don't have a boom pole, so you'll have to tell the interviewee not to move around, or turn his head.
oh, and mount the nt1a upside down, so the membrane is just outside the shot.

ps. film shoots are done with small diaphragm mics because of their size, not sound.

[reflekshun]

Thankyou danijel, thats exactly the kind of advice I was after, I'm very grateful for your help. Perhaps I will bring some weights to hold down the mic stand and prop it up on a table.

Very interesting fact about the use of small diaphragm mics, good to know

[matthewd]

Just thought I would mention here I have found the Rode NT6 to be invaluable in this situation - it is proper small and very cost effective. You end up with just the capsule which can go unobtrusively on a table stand with the preamp part of the mic body 3m away (on the floor / under the table etc).

Neumann, Schoeps and DPA all do this kind of thing for between 3 and 6 times the price and I have to confess I can't tell the difference - I bought them on recommendation on here from Tony Faulkner who I respect hugely and of course he was right.

Matt

[jowillie]

None of the above seem appropiate for what you describe.

Will the presentations involve dialouge with additional people?
Is this a program in front of a large audience in a hall?
How many cameras?
Is there a sound contractor for the event? (just plug in to their system.)

Maybe I totally missed something, but from what I understand from your brief description, a condenser, especially a large condenser is the last thing you want to use. And the SM57 on a mic stand may absolutely be the best (safest) choice.

I have crews that do this multiple times a week. Straighten me out on what exactly is happening and we can advise accordingly.
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VO Mic Test

[Richard King]

This is similar to what I have done many times for broadcast audio situations. Is there any reason you can't use a clip on microphone? If not that then a short shotgun on a boom would be best. Just make sure the person controlling the boom keeps the mic out of the shot which should be a fairly simple process. I don't think any of the mics (or the plan) that you have will work properly for this situation. :(

[chris319]

(Originally posted on Monday)

The speech will be done by one person only with almost no movement, in a small meeting room

Here is what I would use for this sort of thing:

Audio-Technica AT831B Miniature cardioid condenser lavalier/instrument microphone (battery/phantom) | Full Compass

Have it shipped to you via overnight. Rather than order off the web I suggest you call in your order and make sure it can go out on UPS or FedEx THAT DAY, not the following day. If Full Compass can't do it, call around: B&H Photo, Sweetwater, Markertek, etc.

You have no control over the room acoustics and we will assume it is not a treated recording studio, so you want the mic as close as practical to the person speaking lest you pick up too much of the room's "liveness". You're lucky it's only one talker -- that simplifies the equation greatly. You didn't say whether the person will be standing, sitting, standing at a lectern, walking around or using visual aids such as artwork on an easel or a dry-erase board. A lapel mic will cover all of these contingencies (and you should have one in your arsenal anyway).

If you absolutely KNOW the person will be seated at a table the entire time and will not be getting up and moving around, my second choice would be the SM57 on a desk stand, provided the video people do not object to having a mic in the shot. Try to keep the mic less than about 12" from the talker -- again, you're going to be fighting the room's acoustics.

Atlas Sound DS5E Desk Microphone Stand, 6" Base, 5" Height (Black) | Full Compass

If you go with the SM57, throw in one of these:

Shure A55M Microphone Isolation Mount | Full Compass

Where I work we do this kind of thing multiple times every day (news conferences) and there isn't that much to it. It's human speech, not a symphony orchestra, so no point in overengineering it and hanging fancy mics from the ceiling. Our guys get more than adequate results using E-V RE50s (but the SM57 is a better choice for your purposes). Intelligibility is king and that means you want to keep out as much room reverberation as possible, so the closer the mic is to the person speaking, the better.

Will you need to provide an audio feed to the video crew? It sounds like it would be a good way to go if you've got the talker well-miked, rather than having them use a distant on-board camcorder mic. Perhaps you have a little mic mixer which can provide them with a line- or mic-level feed, or you could pick one up at the local Guitar Center? (Just stay away from Behringer. ) You would then need to consult with the video crew to find out what kind of audio feed they need.

To reiterate, I highly recommend going with the lapel mic as your first choice. Just make sure to bring enough cable and shake out ALL of your gear before you go on location. Murphy's Law dictates that the one thing you don't shake out beforehand is the very thing that will bite you in the a** when you get on location. I have found this law to be immutable. Also, at the risk of pointing out the obvious, it is of utmost importance that you monitor the audio on headphones/earbuds during the entire presentation.

I don't know where you are located, but as an alternative to the Audio Technica lapel mic suggested earlier, if you have a Sam Ash store within driving distance you could see if they have one of these in stock which you could buy over the counter and save yourself some money and anxiety (despite what the link says it is actually a Samson QL5 CL ConcertLine Lavalier Microphone, not an AT PRO70):

Buy Audio Technica PRO70 Lavalier Microphone At Sam Ash

However you need to make sure you can supply it with phantom power as it does not run on a battery.

Best of luck.

[chris319]

reflekshun -

If you chance to read this, please let us know how your session turned out.

[reflekshun]

(I actually posted how it went here, but i think it was lost in the power thingy. Anyway take 2!)

Thankyou all for your comprehensive feedback, I have started to look into all the things you have suggested. I simply didn't have the time nor resources to pick up a new mic before the session, and I was told a day before that the end product will be streaming low/mid-band video, I wasn't feeling like it was an emergency. Also, I was briefed at the last moment on the details of the video. It turned out they only wanted video for 5 very short segments scattered across the presentation. Also, they were zoomed in quite close, meaning I could get a mic on a stand close enough for good results.

Although the person being recorded wasn't as willing to participate as we hoped, I guess thats all part of the challenge. Its hard to give feedback / constructive crit, when they don't even want to be there!

Anyway on the tech side, I ended up choosing a SP C4 mic for its size and less intrusive appearance (as opposed to the large Diaphragm Rode NT1a). Using a pencil mic was very effective as for one it was less intimidating to the easily intimidated guy who was being recorded (most people get scared of something pointed at them I guess). Secondly it was more 'agile' wierd as it sounds. Much easier to move around without much fuss, also very easy to move out of the shot, but get close in.

For the video segments, I basically got as close and low as possible without being in the shot. (I actually popped on the wind shield, as it mildly dampened the background a/c (not possible to be turned off for our session :/) and also looked more friendly - this guy was not a fan of the mic pointing at him!! For all other segments I placed it right in front of his mouth, with a pop shield separating mouth from mic. If theres anything here you think is silly or could have been done better I'd love to hear it

I also experienced pops and clicks which I think were due to the spikes in the mains (see: Pops - am I missing something?)

On the whole though, the recording process and communication went quite smoothly, was able to build a fairly relaxed atmosphere for the client who was potentially easily intimidated by the whole situation. Of course there were quite a few technical things that I could improve the next time I do something like this.

I have LOTS of reading to do, with all the suggestions you guys have given me, the next project I do I will be much more informed and prepared for. All about learning!

Thankyou all once again, really appreciate the directions and advice, especially for future projects.

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by matthewd

Just thought I would mention here I have found the Rode NT6 to be invaluable in this situation - it is proper small and very cost effective. You end up with just the capsule which can go unobtrusively on a table stand with the preamp part of the mic body 3m away (on the floor / under the table etc).

Neumann, Schoeps and DPA all do this kind of thing for between 3 and 6 times the price and I have to confess I can't tell the difference

Remember the NT6 is a lot (!) noisier (about 20 dBA if memory serves correctly) than the NT 5 and 55, probably because of that extension cable that is required to use the mic; and is noisier yet when compared to the Schoeps, Neumann, and DPA mics.

The NT 5 and 55 have much lower noise levels.

Tony's comments certainly made an impression on me, but I couldn't really tell if he had used them. It seems he had them as backups, and then did some comparisons after the project-and then maybe of only the omni capsule.

That's not in any way to minimize his remarks, I take him, his knowledge, and his experience very seriously. (Plus, he's a nice guy!)

So now to get back to your point: Yes, the NT6 might be just the thing! If the OP uses it, maybe he (or others) can talk about the noise of the NT6.

And for the OP-there's always the new MKH8000 series. It's not modular in exactly the same way as Neumann/Scnoeps, and not "compact" in exactly the same way as DPA and Schoeps, but, nevertheless, it's a very small mic-even WITH using it as one unit-mic and XLR connector together.

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by chris319

If you absolutely KNOW the person will be seated at a table the entire time and will not be getting up and moving around, my second choice would be the SM57 on a desk stand, provided the video people do not object to having a mic in the shot.

This situation would say "boundary mic" to me. They're available as omni or directional (though those would technically be "phase coherent" as opposed to boundary.

Don't have a boundary mic? Use any mic on the table-as in flush. No stand. And you will gain up to 6 dB acoustically, and increase direct to diffuse ratio as well.

[reflekshun]

Jegg: Hmm never thought of boundary mics. I dont have one, but how does that other idea of yours work? Do you place a soft material under the mic to dampen direct vibrations or? And what does flush mean?

Forgive me for my lack of knowledge, all this new info is very helpful though!

[reflekshun]

Chris: I've had more time to read over your longer post and checked out all your suggestions. I did test the SM57 during setup, but found that the levels and therefore noise floor had to be raised too high to get healthy signal from the vocal source at the distance required to stay off camera. (not ambience as it was obviously the king of eliminating ambience relative to my condensers!). The client much preferred to have the mic out of the shot, but next time I may consider asking if they are bothered by it, if it meant better sound (thats if I dont have a lavalier by then)

There was no video crew, it was simply a digi camera on a tripod. This was done by a financial consultant and myself e so they didn't want / need an audio feed. I have a behringer mixer at home which I think I should replace though. If anyone can give me extra reasons to replace it be my guest!

Lastly, How do I supply phantom power to a lavalier, when the connector size seems the same as a headphone jack? I've only so far powered the typical larger XLR cables.

Thankyou once again. Chris you've been extremely helpful thanks!

[chris319]

The battery pack on the AT lapel mic has an XLR connector.

I'm not surprised about the SM57 and low gain. Good thing you had the condenser along.

This situation would say "boundary mic" to me. They're available as omni or directional (though those would technically be "phase coherent" as opposed to boundary.

Don't have a boundary mic? Use any mic on the table-as in flush. No stand. And you will gain up to 6 dB acoustically, and increase direct to diffuse ratio as well.

Interesting idea, but I would be worried about thumps on the table and paper rustling, that kind of thing.

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by chris319

Interesting idea, but I would be worried about thumps on the table and paper rustling, that kind of thing.

An omni boundary mic does not respond to surface born sound transmission. The only audible thumps would be those acoustically transmitted through the air. A HP filter would fix that, and would further enable the use of directional mics on a surface as well.

The table scenario was brought up as one limited condition in the OP's scenario, and in general, I'd agree that other methods would be more workable in most circumstances.

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by reflekshun

Jegg: Hmm never thought of boundary mics. I dont have one, but how does that other idea of yours work? Do you place a soft material under the mic to dampen direct vibrations or? And what does flush mean?

You put the mic right on the surface-firmly taped in place. No cushioning material. BTW, dedicated boundary mics (and "phase coherent" etc) came about after many years of using plain ol' mics on gobo panels in orchestral situations.

The polar patterns all work the same way they would if the mic were stand mounted, except, of course, the "bottom half" is missing. In some instances, the effect can be a little like removing the surface that the mic is on.

You can vary the tonality by angling the capsule, if desired. Dedicated boundary mics have smaller distances (most of the time) between diaphragm and surface, but often other mics sound as good or better because often boundary mic capsules aren't great to start with.

You can make the mic's extremely directional if they are mounted at the intersection of surfaces-ex.: two walls and a ceiling.