Kids choir recording advice please!

[studiovv]

Hi there,

I have a gig coming up next week for which I need your advise. I will be recording a kid's choir in a large auditorium (recent and modern)designed by Artec in NY. So I am not too worried with the room itself. The goal is to have a good recording fo a fund raising "album". It will be mixed afterwards on a analog console to Korg MR1000 and get mastering by a pro.

The setup will be :

Choir of 15 kids + 1 soloist
Upright bass
drums
9ft Steinway grand (director)
Electric guitar and amp

It is live, but there will not be any audience. We have a whole week end. The pianist is also the director. I was thinking to have band in a half circle around the piano who would be in front / open lid towards the room, around the piano in a half circle: the drums far left with plexicage, gtr/gobo and bass in the center and the kids to the far right facing the center. I was thinking of close mics for all and a stereo pair in front...

I have recorded there a few times but my challenge is always the bleeding of other instruments in the choir's mics.. Do you have a solution??

Here is my mic setup:

Mics:
AKG414ULS x 3, AKG 480 x 3 /cardio, Earthworks TC30 x 2 omni, AKG 451EB x2 , RCA 74jr x2, Rode Classic , Elation KM901 ldc, Elation KM201 sdc, D12, D112, ATM25,ATM 35x2, ATM25x4 and many other dynamics.

My recording gear:
Fostex D2424LV with two Focusrite (total 16ch) ISA828 with A/D cards. 2x NEVE1073, Telefunken V672 x4, Langevin DVC, Millenia HV3 2channel

If some of you have time I would like to know what you would use?? I know I have a lot of possibilities but just want your opinions!

Best regards

JF/Montreal

[dcharrison]

I am sure you have already thought of this, but you could treat this like a session and record the instruments first and then overdub the choir. That would get you zero bleed into the voice tracks, but you'd have to find a bunch of headsets.

[letsdance]

hey,
i did somthing very similar only recently but with 40 kids and know drums, and to 2 track (old skool)

i would consider putting a duvet or isolater of some kind in front of the drums.
you will most likely get a lot of spill form the snare and cymbals..perhaps ask the drummer not to use stick and use reeds or similar...

with know audience i would place the choir and band facing each other...perhaps using the floor space in front of the stage if space allows..

i agree with placing the band around the piano. make sure that the drummer has a good view the director as he/she is the click track...

kids gets tired and bored fast so make it as funny and as enjoyable as possible...tell them that you will let them hear it at the end...

dont let them have to much sugar (that probably goes for all musicians - especially the drummer

with the piano i would consider recording in stereo if trks and equp allow..but keep in mind that with so many instruments mono would be fine...so make sure that if using two mics on the piano that one has the overall best sound

ask any lead singers to step out a foot or two from the choir and but a condenser about 3ft in front (with pop shield)

mic choice: i really like two km184 on the choir (x/y) / u87 on soloist / 414 (*2 ?) on piano / sm58/57 on amp / di and condenser on bass / drums...i really depends on how there played, and how the finished product is meant to sound.....i like the minimal approach..

thats my 2cents...have a good one....

[dbssound1]

choir of kids? hmmmmm?

I recommend 2 bottles of advil and a bottle of burbon!

Best of luck with your recording!

[matthewd]

Hi there

I've done quite a few things like this and it is going to be a compromise. However, try and get hold of some acoustic screens - the type they have in studios on wheels often with perspex windows in them - they weigh an absolute ton but you can then build a booth on location which will improve things enormously. I'm afraid the person who suggests recording separately didn't quite image the implications of putting 16 kids on headphones for playback - it would be a nightmare and the performance would probably suffer because it would be so alien to them - its hard enough getting the monitor mix right for session musicians who do it every day. You can also appeal to your rhythm section folks to play down in comparison to how they would in a full blown performance, playing to the mics rather than the audience.

Hope this helps

Matt

[letsdance]

"I recommend 2 bottles of advil and a bottle of burbon!"

cups of tea will have to do



"playing to the mics"
thats a really nice phrase....i will use that, when in prerecording mode, if thats ok..

[joelpatterson]

I'd want to aim for separating the various factions as much as possible-- like ideally everyone was facing outward from a common circle, and then each group/player is mic'd as close as reasonable.

If you had the choir on the back side of the piano, opposite the open lid, they could still certainly "hear" the piano okay, but hopefully the choir mics and the piano mics could have some degree of separation? Not washing and spilling and phasing all into one another? Similarly, the electric guitar amp could be angled outward another way, or set further off-- the guitar player will be able to "hear" the ensemble and the part he (or she) is playing, but the mic at the amp won't "hear" a blurry mess of everything else all mixed together. If this isn't an improv, and the group is fairly well rehearsed, they could probably tolerate a little distancing for the sake of a clear, mixable multi-track. Not opposite ends of the room, just spread out some.

If they're set up like a performance, all facing front, you risk ending up like I did one time-- a boisterous performance of Paul Winter's Earth Mass, which is piano, drumkit, bass, choir and tenor sax... even after I turned the sax mic OFF, it was STILL too loud, just the bleed into everyone else's mic's!

[danijel]

Originally Posted by dcharrison

I am sure you have already thought of this, but you could treat this like a session and record the instruments first and then overdub the choir. That would get you zero bleed into the voice tracks, but you'd have to find a bunch of headsets.

other way around would require less headsets:
record the kids with the piano, then record everyone else.

of course, if piano is in both rhythmic and harmonic function.

[JEGG]

This should not be a complicated task.

One pair of microphones. Get things balanced by adjusting dynamic levels or physical position. The idea is not to have no bleed, the idea is to have total bleed so that the recording has a good chance of sounding natural.

Record.

Go home. Enjoy.

+1000 to the person who reminded us that kids get tired fast. They do! But most kids' choirs I've recorded can lay down two consecutive back to back complete takes with total perfection. That's all that's needed.

What that means is: You need to come in with a well thought out plan about where everybody and everything will be. There's no messing around for 20 minutes with mic positions and such. It's a lot easier to get two mics in the right position that it is to get 6, 8, or 20 in the right position.

Experience is a big plus!

PS This is not a job that requires headsets!