Film sound of the 30's & 40's

[dingo]

I've been watching old b&w US films from the 30's and 40's lately, and I've really become infatuated with the smooth and highly charactered sound, especially in dialogue. From where I'm sitting, it's somewhat narrow sounding and mid-heavy, not very natural, but every voice is just oozing with this smooth character.. no fine detail, no warts, no harshness, no air really. But no voice sounds bad. Every voice is another interesting character.

I haven't spent much time searching for info yet, but if anyone knows, what mic's and pre's were commonly used in film sound during that time? I'm guessing 44's, 77's? No idea on the pre's. Any websites to read?

[Bastiaan]

Obviously only tubes....i think the transistor wasnt invented untill 1948

And i think the optical recording system was very much ahead of its time. Maybe back in those days the playback wasnt that great, but those recordings certainly sounds nice when the scan them now....

just my 2 cents....

[soundguy]

mostly optical recorders and ribbon mics. The gear to a degree is pretty irrelevant as in the studio system at that time the sound department was a MUCH different thing that it is today, meaning that those guys were given the authority to do the job right and shows worked around them. Compare that to today, with the advent of all degrees of technology, we are expected to go out there and work around whatever bullshit camera throws our way and if we dont get it, they can loop it later. That attitude really wasnt too prevelant back then and sound guys were given the respect needed to make a good recording. Another thing to consider is that the majority of those movies were done on stages where everything was under some degree of control, again, a big change from where we are today...

dave

[initialsBB]

None of the voices sound bad and every voice is an interesting character because they are all professional actors! I would bet that even moreso than today, the actors had to have interesting voices to work in Hollywood. Many of course came from radio as well.

As for the no warts, no air, no detail, I'm guessing that the actors were miced fairly far away in a quiet soundstage with great acoustics. Perhaps modern shotgun mics mimic more of a close-miked sound and therefore don't smooth out the warts and detail as much? I don't know. But as soundguy pointed out, the locations are key. Shooting on a soundstage vs. shooting on location must make a difference in sound that is equivalent to recording in a studio vs. recording in a club.

[Sharp11]

I'm a big fan of film noir and it is amazing how good some of these movies sound.

"Double Indemnity" not only sounds great but looks great, all these years later.

Ditto "The Asphalt Jungle" and "The Killers".

Great scores, too.

Ed

[dingo]

Thanks all for the info. Much appreciated. So far I've only had time to research just a very small amount on optical recorders.. interesting stuff, and I'm still not entirely sure I have a good grasp practically on how it works. I wonder how much of an effect recording to film has on the sound, beyond the SNR, pops and that sort? Ah, see, I have this idea in mind to mimic this sound I keep hearing from these old films. Not re-create, though.. just to get reasonably close. And it seems almost workable apart from the medium.

[Ted Nightshade]

If I recall correctly, and I do believe I do, there is nothing but mids on those old optical recordings. No highs, no lows, just mids- mids done really right!

[Bob Olhsson]

If you want to really feel frustrated, listen to one of those old films in the kind of theater and sound system that they were produced for. VERY few contemporary theaters and films sound as no-brainer great.

Progress?

[jabney]

Western Electric and, later, RCA are the ones to thank for the film sound of that era (if I recall correctly from reading audiophile magazines and film credits).

Lyric-friendly vocalist Fred Astaire helped a lot in setting high audio standards for the movies. (They say he was also a pretty good dancer :-)

Have you ever noticed a difference in sound going from song to dialogue? In Astaire films, you can hear the orchestra but usually not see it. Were the song scenes lip-synched or was the orchestra off to the side?

[Sharp11]

Originally posted by jabney

Have you ever noticed a difference in sound going from song to dialogue? In Astaire films, you can hear the orchestra but usually not see it. Were the song scenes lip-synched or was the orchestra off to the side?

Ummm....lip-synced.

Also, much of the dialogue was dubbed later, especially in the noir films as many of those were done on location.