Adding Reverb on Classical Recording, Done not Done?

[Omicron_9]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

You mean... like setting up a microphone that's hooked up to a tape deck? Like that?

Joel,

Your dry sense of subtle humor never fails to put a smile on my face. Nice work, sir.

Regards,
-0.9

[Sound Sorcerer]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

You mean... like setting up a microphone that's hooked up to a tape deck? Like that?

No, I mean by placing your microphones in the right place on the first time. I'm not saying that adding artificial rev cant sound realistic or great, what I'm saying is that if you are going to do a professional classical recording you should take your time and do it right.

[Sound Sorcerer]

Originally Posted by Melodioso

You probably have no idea what is being done on world-class CD release of top classical musicians... Funny. And I'm not talking of autotune.

And you do right? Again, I'm not saying is not done in the real world. I only prefer to do it naturally, finding the sweet spot where to place the microphones. It takes time but IMHO it sounds best.

[Sound Sorcerer]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

IMHO, the most important point of all this is whether it sounds realistic or not.

Whatever it takes to make it sound as sweet as possible without it sounding artificial or contrived should be the real concern or criteria.

I agree with you Steve. Whatever makes you client happy...

[Corran]

Uh, some halls SUCK in case you forgot. The hall I record in has practically no reverb except for this terrible slap-back echo (so I can't use omnis practically at all).

[Sound Sorcerer]

Originally Posted by Corran

Uh, some halls SUCK in case you forgot. The hall I record in has practically no reverb except for this terrible slap-back echo (so I can't use omnis practically at all).

Thats why you should have a multitude of Microphones in your sound palette. An omni mic is probably not the best option to use in your situation... And of course choosing a good sounding location is critical.

[Corran]

I don't think your getting me. The hall sucks no matter what. Duh, I have more than omnis (actually I only have one onmi, two more on the way though). An ORTF pair works great but it's super-dry. If I move it back it loses clarity. In this instance a little artificial reverb is the only way to work it.

[Sound Sorcerer]

Well then someone should change the title of this poll to
"Adding reverv to a classical recording done on a crappy sounding Hall"

DUH!!

[Corran]

I didn't make the poll!

Duh! fuuck

[Sound Sorcerer]

Originally Posted by Corran

I didn't make the poll!

Duh! fuuck

Whatever dude

[tommy_asakawa]

We should consider that we have a diverse audience here; Sound Sorcerer comes from a world that's less tolerant of adding fx to enhance audio. Often in the world of music creation, almost anything goes... especially if the music reaches any notoriety.

[Roland]

Originally Posted by tommy_asakawa

We should consider that we have a diverse audience here; Sound Sorcerer comes from a world that's less tolerant of adding fx to enhance audio. Often in the world of music creation, almost anything goes... especially if the music reaches any notoriety.

Yo're kidding right? In TV (particularly film and drama) FX are pasted all over live recorded sounds all the time even more so with Foley and ADR is bread and butter stuff.

For anyone to suggest that you can do live location recording of classical music without ever having to resort to added reverb on odd ocassions is living in a dreamworld. Many times I get to record in good accoustics (or at least reasonable ones) where adding reverb isn't needed. But I will give you a couple of examples where it was unavoidable. A few years ago I recorded The Coldstream Guards band, at the time there was still a security threat from the IRA so going on location was impossible for security reasons. The disc had to be recorded in the bandroom clear, but dead accoustic. Reverb was added as a matter of course, interestingly I heard a Sony classics recording in the same band room, they chose to do the same. A couple of years back recording at the Royal Opera House with a 16 voice chorus, unfortunately totally overpowered by the arrangement in the hall so the choir had to be spotted, I had to use reverb to "sit" the choir in the mix. On both those occasions no amount of mic placement or production genius was going to fix this. Interesting how people like Mark Donahue with his obvious reputation has little problem with it.

Regards to all


Roland

[tommy_asakawa]

Originally Posted by Roland

Yo're kidding right? In TV (particularly film and drama) FX are pasted all over live recorded sounds all the time even more so with Foley and ADR is bread and butter stuff.

Roland

Not kidding, Roland. Reverb is much more conservatively used in film & TV where as reverb in music is often a feature of it's own. (Celine Dion or Andrea Bocelli)
Just my opinion...

Tom Asakawa

MySpace.com - WARRIOR (USA) - Hollywood, California - Metal / Rock / Hardcore - www.myspace.com/mcawarrior

[Sound Sorcerer]

Originally Posted by Roland

Yo're kidding right? In TV (particularly film and drama) FX are pasted all over live recorded sounds all the time even more so with Foley and ADR is bread and butter stuff.
For anyone to suggest that you can do live location recording of classical music without ever having to resort to added reverb on odd ocassions is living in a dreamworld. Many times I get to record in good accoustics (or at least reasonable ones) where adding reverb isn't needed. But I will give you a couple of examples where it was unavoidable...

Your talking about different things here, TV & Film Drama, Foley, ADR have nothing to do with Classical Music recording techniques.
Again, I'm only saying this is NOT My cup of tea. The musicians & projects I've worked on didn't require digital reverb. And as I mentioned before If a client should ask me to add some digital reverb I would probably do it. If the Client wants me to run the master on analog tape & run it through an echo chamber I will probably do it. If you ask Me If I prefer to record on a nicely design music Hall better than in a small room & later add reverb, then you know I prefer the Concert Hall

Here's a sample of a classical recording I participated on...

[joelpatterson]

Some of this "purist" attitude I see on display from certain posters is like someone who's heading straight for a cliff but they won't slow down because there's no stop sign.

EVERYTHING ABOUT RECORDING MUSIC FOR LATER PLAYBACK IS PHONY. ALL OF IT.

The entire enterprise is a complete fraud. Microphones are not ears. Speakers are not mouths. If you haven't grasped this... you need to.

The only measure of your worth is if YOUR playback sounds extra specially good. How you get there is your problem. It's like I've hired people to paint my house, and I come back, and there's only primer up to about six feet, and I ask what's up, and they say, "That's as far as I can reach! 'Ladders'? It's not fair to use ladders!"

[Corran]

The thing I like about recording classical music is that you already know what it should sound like before you record it, via either the rehearsal or other CDs of the same piece, etc.

Therefore my opinion is to do anything to make it sound like it should, including digitized reverb. The hall might be lacking (referenced to the CDs of a recording in a good hall) or the hall might not be conducive to recording. Or even you *gasp* didn't have enough time to try 10 different mic setups so you go with what you think is best and fix it later. I for one NEVER have time for this, I setup and push record and hope for the best!! I hardly get a soundcheck .

[mixerguy]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

Some of this "purist" attitude I see on display from certain posters is like someone who's heading straight for a cliff but they won't slow down because there's no stop sign.

EVERYTHING ABOUT RECORDING MUSIC FOR LATER PLAYBACK IS PHONY. ALL OF IT.

The entire enterprise is a complete fraud. Microphones are not ears. Speakers are not mouths. If you haven't grasped this... you need to.

The only measure of your worth is if YOUR playback sounds extra specially good. .......

+1

[Sound Sorcerer]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

Some of this "purist" attitude I see on display from certain posters is like someone who's heading straight for a cliff but they won't slow down because there's no stop sign.

I hear you brother, this silly posters with their attitude... Its annoying man!

[noiseflaw]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

The entire enterprise is a complete fraud. Microphones are not ears. Speakers are not mouths. If you haven't grasped this... you need to.

The only measure of your worth is if YOUR playback sounds extra specially good. How you get there is your problem. It's like I've hired people to paint my house, and I come back, and there's only primer up to about six feet, and I ask what's up, and they say, "That's as far as I can reach! 'Ladders'? It's not fair to use ladders!"

Well said.

[Corran]

ahahah you have no idea...

[Melodioso]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

Some of this "purist" attitude I see on display from certain posters is like someone who's heading straight for a cliff but they won't slow down because there's no stop sign.

EVERYTHING ABOUT RECORDING MUSIC FOR LATER PLAYBACK IS PHONY. ALL OF IT.

The entire enterprise is a complete fraud. Microphones are not ears. Speakers are not mouths. If you haven't grasped this... you need to.

The only measure of your worth is if YOUR playback sounds extra specially good. How you get there is your problem. It's like I've hired people to paint my house, and I come back, and there's only primer up to about six feet, and I ask what's up, and they say, "That's as far as I can reach! 'Ladders'? It's not fair to use ladders!"

Yes! The only purist approach I know of is letting your gear in their boxes and going to the concert, sitting in the best place! And that's a totally different experience than listening to a CD though.

[noiseflaw]

Originally Posted by Corran

ahahah you have no idea...

And you do?

[Corran]

sorry man that was directed at someone else.