Standalone recorders: Mounting and recording at the same time

macula · 17th April 2008, 07:57 PM

I wonder why all recorders are "disabled" when mounted onto the computer as disk drives. I would love to be able to access my just recorded audio files immediately from the computer without having to mount the recorder first, then copy the file, and then unmount it again.

Is there a way around this?

dkatz42 · 17th April 2008, 10:49 PM

Probably a file system limitation around having a drive accessible by two different systems simultaneously. Unless the file system is designed for multiple simultaneous access, it is easy to screw things up with two systems going at it. Even if only one of them has write access, it's easy for the second system to see the drive in an inconsistent intermediate state as things get updated by the first system. (And if two systems have write access, it becomes easy to trash the drive.)

File systems that are robust around multiple accessors tend to be less efficient, which isn't what you want with an audio recording device, which tends to be sensitive to head seek times.

macula · 17th April 2008, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkatz42

Probably a file system limitation around having a drive accessible by two different systems simultaneously. Unless the file system is designed for multiple simultaneous access, it is easy to screw things up with two systems going at it. Even if only one of them has write access, it's easy for the second system to see the drive in an inconsistent intermediate state as things get updated by the first system. (And if two systems have write access, it becomes easy to trash the drive.)

File systems that are robust around multiple accessors tend to be less efficient, which isn't what you want with an audio recording device, which tends to be sensitive to head seek times.

That's right. But this problem has been addressed in computer networking (many computers accessing the same disk). Perhaps then the solution would be to equip recorders with networking capabilities (e.g. wifi or ethernet)... Not very cost-effective, certainly, but it would be very convenient.

dkatz42 · 18th April 2008, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macula

That's right. But this problem has been addressed in computer networking (many computers accessing the same disk). Perhaps then the solution would be to equip recorders with networking capabilities (e.g. wifi or ethernet)... Not very cost-effective, certainly, but it would be very convenient.

To be precise, it's not the networking hardware that fixes it, it's the networked file system (AFS/NFS/etc.) that has all of the exclusion primitives that makes this sort of thing work (with the attendant decreases in performance.)

It could be done with a software update, but it's not clear how intrusive this would be, software-wise (O/S upgrade? application awareness?), nor whether the appliance would still perform adequately in its primary role.

huub · 22nd April 2008, 12:30 AM

Should be possible really: EVS hardware, the standard in live slow motion and realtime editing, can simultaneously record, play and stream or copy to a server multiple streams of video and audio...
So the technology excists..

**Remoteness** · 22nd April 2008, 04:21 AM

Elvis (EVS) is an awesome system!

I'd love to see something like that as a multi-track audio system

huub · 22nd April 2008, 02:59 PM

Well, actually, a good friend of mine works as a consultant for EVS, and (at my suggestion, thank you very much :) ) they're investigating the recording of broadcast wave files, so you can use the EVS as a backup or main multitrack recorder (16 channels per machine).. Of course these machines are extremely expensive and have all this useless video stuff built in ;)

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17th April 2008, 07:57 PM	#1
macula Gear Head Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 58	Standalone recorders: Mounting and recording at the same time I wonder why all recorders are "disabled" when mounted onto the computer as disk drives. I would love to be able to access my just recorded audio files immediately from the computer without having to mount the recorder first, then copy the file, and then unmount it again. Is there a way around this?

22nd April 2008, 04:21 AM	#6
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 4,807	Elvis (EVS) is an awesome system! I'd love to see something like that as a multi-track audio system __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network Remoteness on Myspace

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17th April 2008, 10:49 PM	#2
dkatz42 Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Santa Fe, NM Posts: 903	Probably a file system limitation around having a drive accessible by two different systems simultaneously. Unless the file system is designed for multiple simultaneous access, it is easy to screw things up with two systems going at it. Even if only one of them has write access, it's easy for the second system to see the drive in an inconsistent intermediate state as things get updated by the first system. (And if two systems have write access, it becomes easy to trash the drive.) File systems that are robust around multiple accessors tend to be less efficient, which isn't what you want with an audio recording device, which tends to be sensitive to head seek times.

22nd April 2008, 12:30 AM	#5
huub Gear addict Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: amsterdam Posts: 375	Should be possible really: EVS hardware, the standard in live slow motion and realtime editing, can simultaneously record, play and stream or copy to a server multiple streams of video and audio... So the technology excists..

22nd April 2008, 02:59 PM	#7
huub Gear addict Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: amsterdam Posts: 375	Well, actually, a good friend of mine works as a consultant for EVS, and (at my suggestion, thank you very much :) ) they're investigating the recording of broadcast wave files, so you can use the EVS as a backup or main multitrack recorder (16 channels per machine).. Of course these machines are extremely expensive and have all this useless video stuff built in ;)