Common Horn Arrangements

[soupking]

Okay, I know this is a gear site, not an instrument site, but after 1900 some posts, I figure why not ask.

You folks were very helpful in giving advice about string arrangements.

Well, now I'm interested in the topic of horns arrangements, and what is commonly recorded.

I imagine the majors are just like high school band, trumpet, trombone, and sax.

But is there are differing array in which these instruments are combined? Or is the a standard set-up like a string quartet that, us as listeners, we commonly hear?

[gsilbers]

as you obiusly know, the idea is that the brass sounds like a one big fat instrument. thats for pop, latin and such.

so not only the players have to be very tight, but later ou have to edit them. also, you would record like a vocal chorus. you know, triple track every part and layer with octave above or below depending on the range and also trple track the harmonies.

as for writing, you would write the main melody and add the chord harmonies accordingly. try to move the voices the less posible, if chords share notes use the same notes, dont jump around. and play the chord ina piano to see how they sound.

[soupking]

Cool, right on.

But is there a typical number of each instrument that are used?

[ghellquist]

Hmm. This is quite a subject. Sammy Nestico, well known arranger has written a tome about this: The complete Arranger, going to 340 pages and including a CD with examples (1993 Fenwood Music Co).

Typical big band setup, if you start there is four trumpets, four trombones and five saxes. One of the trombones is typically called bass trombone, although what exactly that is would take quite a bit of place to talk about (I played the bass trombone for better of 30 years). The saxes are generally 2 altos, 2 tenors and one bariton.

Typical voicings differ between era-s according to mr Nestico. Examples: Close Block voicing used in the swing era for the saxes. Cluster voicing (all in one octave) used by late Tommy Dorsey and Thad Jones. And on it goes. Some typical voicing of the sax section might be to have one flute or a clarinet in there (or more).

For the trumpets and bones again mr Nestico says he likes the trumpets playing a triad with the fourth doubling the lead an octave below and the the bones supporting with a chord cluster.

Anyway, not beeing much of an arranger, I cannot really say much more.

Gunnar

[soupking]

Cool, thanks Gunnar.

I was thinking something smaller like 6 or less.

For example, if I were to do like a New Orleans swing set-up with a handful of horns, would there be a common set-up the same way a string quartet is commonly a cello, viola, and 2 violins?

[matyas]

Originally Posted by soupking

For example, if I were to do like a New Orleans swing set-up with a handful of horns, would there be a common set-up the same way a string quartet is commonly a cello, viola, and 2 violins?

"New Orleans" jazz is not swing. When I think of New Orleans jazz, I usually think of Louis Armstrong et. al. Pre-Swing. "Swing" usually means Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Woody Herman, etc. Swing usually implies a big band, as described above. If you're thinking New Orleans, then the line-up usually includes clarinet, cornet (or 2), trombone, sometimes a saxophone or two (although clarinet is more typical of this style), and perhaps a tuba, especially if there's no string bass.

[soupking]

Originally Posted by matyas

"New Orleans" jazz is not swing. When I think of New Orleans jazz, I usually think of Louis Armstrong et. al. Pre-Swing. "Swing" usually means Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Woody Herman, etc. Swing usually implies a big band, as described above. If you're thinking New Orleans, then the line-up usually includes clarinet, cornet (or 2), trombone, sometimes a saxophone or two (although clarinet is more typical of this style), and perhaps a tuba, especially if there's no string bass.

Awesome, thanks for the terminology correction. I'm from Wyoming. Not much of either up there.

Wow, that arrangement's different than I would've imagined. Cool beans.

[matyas]

Originally Posted by soupking

Wow, that arrangement's different than I would've imagined. Cool beans.

If that's not close to the lineup you expected, then you're not thinking of New Orleans/early jazz/dixieland. (Obviously jazz lineups vary quite a bit. Some groups were much larger, some smaller.) Examples of the early jazz sound are Louis Armstrong, Fletcher Henderson, Bix Beiderbecke, etc. That's the sound you hear on NPR's "Riverwalk Jazz", etc. In a rock context, it's the sound of the band in Radiohead's "Life in a Glass House".
You are (I suspect) thinking more of big band swing, which, as I mentioned, is a somewhat later development. (Again, Basie, Ellington, etc.) If you want about six players for a big band kind of sound, I'd use three saxophones (probably alto, tenor, and bari), two trumpets, and one trombone.

[soupking]

Originally Posted by matyas

If that's not close to the lineup you expected, then you're not thinking of New Orleans/early jazz/dixieland. (Obviously jazz lineups vary quite a bit. Some groups were much larger, some smaller.) Examples of the early jazz sound are Louis Armstrong, Fletcher Henderson, Bix Beiderbecke, etc. That's the sound you hear on NPR's "Riverwalk Jazz", etc. In a rock context, it's the sound of the band in Radiohead's "Life in a Glass House".
You are (I suspect) thinking more of big band swing, which, as I mentioned, is a somewhat later development. (Again, Basie, Ellington, etc.) If you want about six players for a big band kind of sound, I'd use three saxophones (probably alto, tenor, and bari), two trumpets, and one trombone.

Cool, thanks Matyas!