Gregorian Choir recording samples

[andy_simpson]

As mentioned recently, I have tried to adopt a different approach towards location recording of acoustic music.

The approach is that of direct comparison between the actual acoustic event and the recording reproduction in real-time.

I used this monitoring approach exclusively for my recent location recording of Gregorian Choir.

The location was an interesting church with a long reverb, captured with a single stereo pair.

The microphones were at head-height, parallel and spaced around 1ft.

By standing directly behind the microphone pair with an SPL matched pair of headphones, a very effective direct A/B was made by myself, my assistant and the choir-master.

We all agreed that the sound was identical within the limits of the headphone system.

Here is a clip in several formats:

96k/24bit
44.1/16bit
mp3

This represents a different approach to the subjective appraisal of the recording since the artistic director was happy that the recording represented the actual event correctly.

Choices such as the physical arrangement of the choir, direct-to-reverb ratio, etc were all set by physically positioning the choir & microphones.

In other words, criticism of the recordings is more criticism of the actual event than of the recording itself.

I found this approach to be very liberating and it allowed the focus to move quickly onto musical issues.

Andy

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by andy_simpson

By standing directly behind the microphone pair with an SPL matched pair of headphones, a very effective direct A/B was made by myself, my assistant and the choir-master.

We all agreed that the sound was identical within the limits of the headphone system.

So this recording is optimized for some specific pair of headphones that everyone will wear while listening to this recording? Are they closed or open? What make and model? Why not use one of the head techniques (Neumann "Fritz" or similar), or better yet, mount the mics on the conductors head? And is the conductor's position really the best place in the space to hear chant?

I don't mean to be a wet blanket, and I'm looking forward to hearing your recordings! But any idea of creating a perfectly objective recording is a little amusing to me. Usually, the recordings are better-and thankfully so. They can provide an aural focus, including distance cues to replace our eyes and other senses when we are away from the source.

That doesn't mean your recordings aren't good, though. You have an interesting idea, and I look forward to hearing your results. And thanks for posting the files.

[Corran]

I think your idea is great, if what was recorded sounds exactly like it did in the hall. Obviously I don't know if it sounds exactly like that, however the recording does sound fantastic! I try to do this approach as well...I listen to a rehearsal of the ensemble and try to match the sound of the recording to what I heard.

Now the question is if the recording has the "realism" of not only sounding just like the hall, but also envelops you and makes you think you are there. This is something I struggle with. In my opinion, while I do really like your recording, I don't quite have that sense of "being there." But that's just my viewpoint...

BTW I love Gregorian Chant...is this for a CD release? I would buy it.

[danijel]

Originally Posted by andy_simpson

In other words, criticism of the recordings is more criticism of the actual event than of the recording itself.

when did gregorian chant turned THAT polyphonic? i must've missed that particular century
anyway, the recording sounds great!

speaking about actual event: i'm not sure it's in the true spirit? i usually don't hear that much individual voices - gregorians tend to sound all-for-one-one-for-all, with less discernible direct sound / reverb.... andy, can you comment on that aspect?

[DaveD]

Andy,

Congratulations on a nice recording.

May I ask who the group was... their performance of this sort of chant is at the highest level. They sound like Ensemble Organum.

Also, how far back from the choir did your technique take the microphones?

Cheers,

David

[staudio]

Sounds great

[andy_simpson]

Originally Posted by JEGG

So this recording is optimized for some specific pair of headphones that everyone will wear while listening to this recording? Are they closed or open? What make and model?

It wasn't optimised for the headphones, rather positioned & compared using the headphones.

Why not use one of the head techniques (Neumann "Fritz" or similar), or better yet, mount the mics on the conductors head? And is the conductor's position really the best place in the space to hear chant?

The mics weren't placed at the conductors position. Rather the choir-master chose a place where it sounded optimal and we put the mics there. Then we compared the actual sound to the recorded sound at that position.

After that he returned to lead the choir from his position within the choir, where he sang.

This recording was not made for headphone playback, so using a 'binaural' head setup is not constructive.

In fact, it sounds a lot more realistic on a far-field monitoring setup than on the headphones.

Andy

[andy_simpson]

Originally Posted by Corran

I think your idea is great, if what was recorded sounds exactly like it did in the hall. Obviously I don't know if it sounds exactly like that, however the recording does sound fantastic! I try to do this approach as well...I listen to a rehearsal of the ensemble and try to match the sound of the recording to what I heard.

Now the question is if the recording has the "realism" of not only sounding just like the hall, but also envelops you and makes you think you are there. This is something I struggle with. In my opinion, while I do really like your recording, I don't quite have that sense of "being there." But that's just my viewpoint...

BTW I love Gregorian Chant...is this for a CD release? I would buy it.

If you send me a PM or email I will pass on your details to the choir-master and he can keep you informed regarding the release schedule.

Regarding the sense of 'being there', this really depends on many factors.

I find the sense of being there far better on my workshop (horn-loaded) main monitors than on headphones, for reasons of both psychoacoustics & physics.

Andy

[Corran]

I agree that it sounds better on monitors than headphones. I'll PM you my email for information on the release...

[andy_simpson]

Originally Posted by danijel

when did gregorian chant turned THAT polyphonic? i must've missed that particular century
anyway, the recording sounds great!

speaking about actual event: i'm not sure it's in the true spirit? i usually don't hear that much individual voices - gregorians tend to sound all-for-one-one-for-all, with less discernible direct sound / reverb.... andy, can you comment on that aspect?

I'm no expert on medieval music, so I can't comment on the polyphony of the chant!

Regarding the direct/reverb ratio, this I suppose is a matter of taste. Personally, I would not sit at the very back of the church to hear this music if I had a choice. However, if the producer had wanted that sound I would have put the mics there.

This was a rather interesting acoustic though and we did make the decision to have the choir face in the direction of the microphones (whereas, I believe that this kind of music is usally performed with the choir in stalls not facing the 'audience').

This was not really necessary for anything other than personal taste but does have an effect on the individual localisation issues, as much in real-life as in the recording.
In fact, this decision and the other decisions of choir location/format/position/etc were made by listening to the choir, before the microphones were even out of the box, as was the microphone position decision.

Andy

[andy_simpson]

Originally Posted by DaveD

Andy,

Congratulations on a nice recording.

May I ask who the group was... their performance of this sort of chant is at the highest level. They sound like Ensemble Organum.

Also, how far back from the choir did your technique take the microphones?

Cheers,

David

I think the choir would be pleased to be compared - the choir-master studied in France I think. I will pass on your kind remarks.

The microphones were some 5-10m away - I'll try to post a picture if I have time tomorrow (and will look up the correct title of the choir).

Andy

[Prick Up UR Ears]

this is no gregorian chant - I even doubt that this is a gregorian choir

and I second Danijel - I must have missed this epoch of polyphonic gregorian chants performed by mixed choirs

a rather uninspired (and to me strange) performance, doesn't sound very Christian more muslim like(what the music is concerned - no the text)

nice recording though, but IMHO has nothing to do with the headphones etc and I also don't see a different approach - but thats probably just me who believes that any recording of such kind of music should always be "as natural as possible"

[RichS]

It's not Gregorian chant, which is a western form based on specific modes.

This is middle Eastern, maybe Greek Orthodox (Christian -- they are singing "alleluia"), and is a form of organum. If you listen closely, it's mostly parallel fifths forming a base (or bourdon) with a melody above, which is also "ornamented" with parallel fifths and octaves. Although technically more than one voice, it's considered heterophony rather than the more common accepted meaning of polyphonic (many voices or independent melodic lines).

BTW, nice recording. Pretty much what that stuff should sound like to the paying customers.

[DaveD]

Originally Posted by Prick Up UR Ears

this is no gregorian chant - I even doubt that this is a gregorian choir

and I second Danijel - I must have missed this epoch of polyphonic gregorian chants performed by mixed choirs

a rather uninspired (and to me strange) performance, doesn't sound very christian more muslim like.

You're right, it's not Gregorian. Sounds more like Gallican chant. These sorts of interpretations attempt to reconstruct the sound of chant at a time when when the Christian East and West were united and influencing each other culturally (first millennium), hence the Eastern sounding embellishments and organum on the Western melodies. I reckon it sounds fantastic.

Is it really a mixed choir, or are there a few coutner-tenors in the mix?

[xxm]

Could you perhaps post your tracks on some other file transfer website? Your links tell me "The file owner's account has reached maximum download bytes. To download this file, you need to pay for the bandwidth charge.

I don't want to wait half a month to listen to your samples!

thanks!
Vincent

[andy_simpson]

Originally Posted by xxm

Could you perhaps post your tracks on some other file transfer website? Your links tell me "The file owner's account has reached maximum download bytes. To download this file, you need to pay for the bandwidth charge.

I don't want to wait half a month to listen to your samples!

thanks!
Vincent

Oops! Ok, I just put the files on a different server so should download ok now.

Links updated above, as here:

96k/24bit
44.1/16bit
mp3

Andy

[andy_simpson]

Originally Posted by DaveD

You're right, it's not Gregorian. Sounds more like Gallican chant. These sorts of interpretations attempt to reconstruct the sound of chant at a time when when the Christian East and West were united and influencing each other culturally (first millennium), hence the Eastern sounding embellishments and organum on the Western melodies. I reckon it sounds fantastic.

Is it really a mixed choir, or are there a few coutner-tenors in the mix?

Yes, it's a mixed choir - I was also surprised when I arrived at the session.

I agree, there is certainly something of an eastern flavour.

Andy

[andy_simpson]

The choir reassembled in the approximate position for this quick photo but was wider during the performance.

Notice the coats - it was absolutely freezing down there!



Andy