Recording a pop/rock band in a small club with two ribbon mics only - which position?

[MrVelvet]

I'm doing a location recording for a trio in a small club (haven't seen the club yet). Usually the band has a very pristine, audiophile live sound and we want to capture the live experience in the room instead of recording single tracks - kind of an experimental, vibey recording.

I will be using two Royer tube ribbons (R122V) along with a Cranesong Flamingo and UA 2192 - just wondering, what position for the mics would you suggest to get a nice overall picture that still sounds a good bit up close (meaning not "too far away" sounding - it should not end up sounding like a bootleg but like a nice, intense live experience)?

Right opposite the stage next to the mixing guy? Pretty much in front of the stage? Or far out left and right? Which height?

My guess would be next to the mixer guy (since there the sound might be exactly the way it is supposed to) with not too much stereo spread to avoid making it sound "too far out".

Any suggestions?

[jnorman]

blumlein pair, center stage 8 feet up and about 8 feet out.

[just.sounds]

I think near the FOH is to far away in a typical venue i would go for 3meter +- from the closest musician. Of course depending on acousics. Blumlein or AB with ribbons. Don't forget half the sound they capure is from the back anyway. so for a "close" sound you have to go pretty close

[MrVelvet]

Yuck! Thanks for the hints so far - FOH might be too far away indeed. I'm not so much of a Blumlein fan, I'll go AB probably and move the mics until I get the desired width.

Ah, I'm a little afraid of putting those exprensive Royers in the middle of the audience... (I have yet to find out if it's seated or not) - how do you set up the expensive stuff to be on the safe side?

[pkautzsch]

Is there a chance to mount a Blumlein or ORTF-ish pair to the lighting rig at about the right position? Or to fly it from there? I wouldn't want to put up any mic in the middle of an audience.

You might still want to record individual tracks to slightly mix into the main pair to taste. Better to have and not need than to need and not have.

[danijel]

i've had good experience recording several rock concerts for a documentary in MS. the upside is, you can later decide how much room and audience you want by mixing the S in/out. rock concert is basically a mono sound source - what gives the stereo is the room and especially the audience. now, i don't know if this applies to your band. if the PA is loud, then it applies more, if there is more direct sound, then less.

as for the height of the mics - take them as high as you can to run away from the audience. there is nothing uglier than hearing close-up single hand-claps. it destroys the magic of the recording by tonally sticking out of the image. if you cannot avoid audience, approach the people within 3m from the mics, and ask them not to clap or shout - seriously!

[danijel]

oh, and don't expect too much from that recording
that stereo pair would be great to mix in with dry signals, but alone, you are bound to have too much room/dirt.
anyway, please report on how it went - i'm really interested, as i am about to record a documentary about brass bands pretty soon, and i will have to use quadro - no close miking.

[MrVelvet]

Thanks for the input! The good thing is that this is a "shut up and listen" band, there's no obvious audience noise most of the time (no clapping in the songs etc.), except for the usual small talk (which can be annoying enough, if picked up too much, I suppose).

The bad thing is that we only have two channels, so no chance to record another signal as well... It's also a bit of a challenge to go that simple way, too thumbsup

The whole thing reminds me of Lou Reed's "Take No Prisoners" live record, which was more of a binaural "live documentary" than an audiophile record, though had an interesting sound at times. If I can get the same thing, but with a little more high fidelity with some "ribbon mojo" quality and less phasing, I'm fine.