Millennia HV-3C vs. Grace Design m201

[macula]

How would you compare the Millennia HV-3C and the Grace Design m201, which are in the same price bracket, in terms of:

- Color/transparency
- Overall sound quality
- Appropriateness for recording classical piano
- Anything else you consider important

Thanks a lot.

[mr.gefell]

Originally Posted by macula

How would you compare the Millennia HV-3C and the Grace Design m201, which are in the same price bracket, in terms of:

- Color/transparency
- Overall sound quality
- Appropriateness for recording classical piano
- Anything else you consider important

Thanks a lot.

the grace now has a MS-decoder and an optional adc as well ...just to mention

[staudio]

Grace m201:

Optional AD, stock with dual outputs, MS decoder with additional outputs, no dual gain range button to hit by accident and blow speakers/ears up. Transparent and wonderful clean gain. Ribbon mic mode for optimizing loading of those passive ribbons.

The Millennia is a great unit too, just not as feature rich and essentially the same design goals/sound.

My preference based on features alone is the Grace.
I also happen to have experience with the Grace mic pre-amps and I love them for any source that demands transparency. Piano is rich and detailed with either unit. Both of these units are super clean, so your mic technique is what you're gonna hear most.

[jnorman]

i auditioned the grace before buying my HV3. the grace is very clean, but was a tad thin to my ears - is probably an excellent choice for ribbons. the HV3 is similarly transparent and clean, but seemed more even across the freq range, and a better match for most LDCs.

[David Rick]

I've done a lot of classical piano recording with the Millennia HV-3 and a pair of DPA omni's. I've never had a reason to change. If one can't get an excellent result in a good hall using this combination, then the solution isn't a different preamp, it's a different piano technician.

OTOH, a friend was considering both, and went with the Grace because of the ADC option. My own feeling is that preamps last a lot longer than converters, technologically speaking. I've gone through three ADC's since buying my first Millennia preamp, and now it's time for yet another converter upgrade. So if the Grace boys keep updating their converter board, that's fine. But John La Grou always meant to upgrade the converter board he offered for the HV-3, and it never actually happened. Converters are complicated, and you have to sell a lot of them to justify the R&D investment.

As for M/S decoding, I don't really give a hoot about it. It's convenient in my Sound Devices recorder when I'm walking around with a boom rig and headphones, but the rest of the time I just do it in the workstation.

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording

[piano]

Any one else?

I have a Millennia but I may consider a Grace.....

or a nice converter.

[fifthcircle]

I've used both extensively and they are both great preamps. I find that the Grace has a bit more of an extension or sheen on the extreme top end and also seems to bring more out in front to back imaging than most other pres. Sometimes that is a good thing and sometimes it isn't. It really depends on your tastes.

The advantage of the Grace is the bells and whistles from the ribbon mic mode to the mid-side decoder.

You're not going to go wrong with either.

--Ben

[DSD_Mastering]

The Millennia HV-3R now has a D/A option. thumbsup

Regards,

[piano]

The Millennia has the converter option?

Please put the link to it.

Can you add the converter to my HV-3D?

How much?

[piano]

Ok here it is:

http://www.mil-media.com/pricelist.htm

Converters only available on the $5,549 .00 HV-3R

AD-R96 (available in August) $1,500.00 HV-3R Analog to Digital convertor option. AES output on DB25. Sample rates to 96k, 24-bit.

[dbssound1]

GRACE ALL THE WAY!!!

Though it sounds funny, due to the preamps, my daughter's middle name ended up being Grace.

I use my grace on piano all the time with amazing results.

Having done a shootout and blind taste test with some colleagues, the grace won out every time!

just my opinion.

[Don S]

Having owned both, if I had to coose only one I would opt for the Millennia. I currently have an older quad from the 80's. The newer ones are not as much prefered by some of my collegues. There were times when I found the Grace to be unusable. Soprano and trumpet come to mind. I've never gotten aanything but the truth from my HV3B.

[piano]

From Millennia:

"THE AD-D96 will be available in a few months - $1500. It is a an upgrade done at the factory.

It has AES outs on a DB25 connector. It is designed for 8 channels, so, if you every add the other 4 preamp cards to yours, you'll be all set."

I guess you CAN use this with a HV-3D.

[scyue]

Anyone got audio samples of a comparison test? I know some guys have both and was wondering to listen to the tests. I am also thinking of getting the Milleniia HV-3C. I actually already have the Grace V3 and don't know if it is worth getting the m201.

[fifthcircle]

There is a big difference between the Lunatec V3 and the rackmount stuff. I wouldn't use that as a basis of comparison.

You can get good results from both the 201 and the HV3. They do have slightly different sounds and the question is more about what you're looking for and what you feel like having in your arsenal. I personally ended up going Grace 801, but would have been plenty happy with a Millennia.

--Ben

[ISedlacek]

I used to have Millennia HV3 for very long time (after reading how faithful and transparent it is). Yet I was a bit restless all the time, not hearing the things too close to how they really sound (in spite of having great mics and AD). After I finally got DAV BG-1, I felt a big relief, that kind of everpresent slightly "arid" edginess disappeared and everything sounded much better to me. The same I felt after trying Crookwood Painpot, Pendulum MDP-1, Cranesong Flamingo, or finally Forssell SMP-2. All of them sounded much more natural and transparent (and for the lack of better term) more "musical" and realistic to my ears, without that slightly edgy "sterile" touch. I don't know about Grace, but if you have an opportunity to try few more preamps than these two mentioned, you may end with a nice discovery

[Teddy Ray]

The Millennia microphone preamp is the *only* preamp I have ever used that I would never use again. I cannot put my finger on it, but everything that came through them ended up sounding shrill/harsh/strident. Never again.

[4blades]

Originally Posted by piano

Any one else?

I have a Millennia but I may consider a Grace.....

or a nice converter.

You might consider a separate converter to add in the chain.
What would be your budget?

[Sheikyearbouti]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

There is a big difference between the Lunatec V3 and the rackmount stuff. I wouldn't use that as a basis of comparison.
--Ben

Ben, what is the basis of your statement? Have you used both? AB?
I am not picking on you, just want to know as I have V3, which I use for remote recordings and absolutely love (including the AD). I have used 201 (not side by side with the Lunatec) and couldn't hear such difference. Further more this is from the Grace website:

"What are the main differences between the lunatec V3 and the m201 and m801?
Like the model 101, the lunatec V3 uses the same amplifier architecture as the m201/m801, so it too exhibits essentially the same sonic character as all of the preamplifiers in our product line."

Thanks

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by Sheikyearbouti

Ben, what is the basis of your statement? Have you used both? AB?
I am not picking on you, just want to know as I have V3, which I use for remote recordings and absolutely love (including the AD). I have used 201 (not side by side with the Lunatec) and couldn't hear such difference. Further more this is from the Grace website:

"What are the main differences between the lunatec V3 and the m201 and m801?
Like the model 101, the lunatec V3 uses the same amplifier architecture as the m201/m801, so it too exhibits essentially the same sonic character as all of the preamplifiers in our product line."

Thanks

I called Grace just a few months ago with the same question. The tech support guy echoed what you quoted. They are the same topology. Most of the difference is power supply and packaging. He said they should sound virtually identical.

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

power supply

This can make a difference. I have also owned the v3(and the predecessor, the v2) and the stand alone , wouldn't call them identical at all. I've got tons of comparison files somewhere(on a old HDD).

[Uncle Russ]

I asked Ben that question and, as you guys already have postulated, he attributes the difference to the power supply. He added that swapping the "wall wart" transformer for clean battery power still wouldn't make much difference. No doubt he will chime in soon with specifics and possible clarification.

[fifthcircle]

Originally Posted by Sheikyearbouti

Ben, what is the basis of your statement? Have you used both? AB?
I am not picking on you, just want to know as I have V3, which I use for remote recordings and absolutely love (including the AD). I have used 201 (not side by side with the Lunatec) and couldn't hear such difference. Further more this is from the Grace website:

"What are the main differences between the lunatec V3 and the m201 and m801?
Like the model 101, the lunatec V3 uses the same amplifier architecture as the m201/m801, so it too exhibits essentially the same sonic character as all of the preamplifiers in our product line."

Thanks

I own both of them. Trust me, there is a big difference in sound between them. The biggest issues are clarity and depth of sound. not to say that the Lunatec is bad, but the high-end topology (801, 201, etc...) is better. If they claim that they are basically the same, then the difference is the power supply. PS is a rather crucial part of the design of audio gear.

--Ben

[Sheikyearbouti]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

I own both of them. Trust me, there is a big difference in sound between them. The biggest issues are clarity and depth of sound.

Ben, you broke my heart.

[fifthcircle]

Sorry.

As I said, it isn't to say that the Lunatec is bad. Not at all- made plenty of good sounding recordings with it. That being said, though, there is a reason why the top end stuff of a given line is the top end stuff.

--Ben

[scyue]

Anyone compared HV3 with the 201 side by side in a classical setting? I'm planning to get a rackmount preamp with a huge difference from what I have now (Lunatec V3). If the differences are subtle than it's not really worth spending a couple of thousand $. I like my current Grace sound and I have never used Millennia products but have listened to some great sounding recordings where engineers have used the 8 channel HV-3D. Can someone post some audio samples of HV3 vs 201? I leaning towards the Millennia (2 or 4 channel version). Thanks.