cheapest way of true DSD editing

[Westmalle]

I bought the Korg MR-1000.
I just recorded one piano recital, and i must say 5,6mHz DSD is really pleasing my ears.

Now, what is the cheapest solution to edit a 2 track DSD. (not converting to DXD except for the fades, no EQ/Compression/... needed)

[jinksdingo]

the cheapest is to only make cuts. That's all you can do in that format without converting it. If it is being published you might as well take the MR to a Mastering house and thru some some sweatiness if needed or at least a conversion to reproduction media.
Korg claim that Audio gate convert without loss of quality. I don't know how true this is. You might be able to enlighten us.
Thanks

[Westmalle]

That is what I want to do , only make cuts in the 5,6Mhz DSD format, with only the fades converting to DXD.

Is there any system to do this on stereo recordings, without having to buy a 8track Sanoma?

[Westmalle]

I listened to the piano recital a couple of times in DSD.

I have recorded in that hall over 200 live concerts, and made several audio CD's.
It's reverb lasts about 600 milliseconds.

Although the performance, and the venue are not that exiting (I could do a better recording in 44khz in a better environment);
here are my impressions:

the differences of 5,6Mhz@1bit DSD over previous 44 khz@24 bit PCM recordings in the same hall:

- I noticed that this DSD sound-recording is the first one that made the acoustics in this particular "bad" hall sound pleasant. The reverberant part is subtly more detailed than with 44k recordings.

- It is also very clear , that the attack portion of the sound, i.e. when the hammers strike the strings, is totally "new" to my ears.
This DSD really captures what I always seemed to miss after digital 24/44kh conversion. I thought to buy a Weiss converter. But now I am convinced 44-96-192khz cannot reproduce analog sound as does the DSD or DXD.

- The analogue sound, from the headphone output of SPS422 Soundfield unit , still does sounds warmer than the recorded sound of the Korg Mr-1000 in my opinion, but that could be due to the different headphone-amps.

- The noise level of the Korg MR-1000 DSD recorded sound was at -60 dB , just as my Apogee Minime unit, but it was more broadband, and less noticable than the Apogee's more 4-6khz-ish noise (recorded at 44k/24bit).

- The fast transients are very well translated here.

- left hand octave scales played forte are sounding much more detailed then 44khz PCM, due to the better high frequency component that is recorded, and the much better impulse response. (This fast response resembles the Digital Audio Denmark AX-24 DXD piano-samples, but those are less noisy, and even more transparant, what can be attributed to the different analog chain they use. DAD mike preamps and DPA mikes.)

So then I did some conversions of the 128fs DSD to the PCM formats with the Audiogate software.

(Meanwhile I deleted these files. They are not the same quality.)
Once converted, the 192, 96, and 48/44k sound gradually lacks more and more of the
nice caracteristics mentioned above.
They lack a bit of the very relaxed high frequency range, and,
The 192 96 44 khz samples fail to translate the very precise DSD-like attack portion of the piano.

I now have an apgee minime -> Mbox capable of doing 44 or 48k and a Korg MR1000 capable of 128fs DSD.

I am unable to make comparisons to other units then the Apogee minime.
I favor the Korg MR-1000 DSD recording converted to 44khz over the Apogee Minime recordings @44khz.

The clarity and the precision of the 128 fs DSD is slightly better than when converted to 64fsDSD.
Once converted to 24 bit 192khz, 96khz, 44 khz... It lacks the extreme clarity.
It is clearly 5 % to 10 % less good sounding.
The clarity of the DSD is almost like the analog source,

I see no use in 96khz or 192 khz over 44 khz.

The main thing however remains good mike positioning, good performers, good composers, and a good hall.

[DSD_Mastering]

Originally Posted by Westmalle

Is there any system to do this on stereo recordings, without having to buy a 8track Sanoma?

As far as I know, there are no programs that can edit 5.6 DSD. Sonoma/Pyramix do 2.8 DSD
I have to convert everything from the Korg unit to 2.8 or DXD

Sonoma is the cheapest editor.

Regards,
Bruce

[Corran]

So in your opinion, in that bad hall, what ended up happening with the DSD is that once mixed down to audio CD, the increase in clarity would be unsubstantial? And that 96khz and up is not much better at all than 44?

I wonder because I record in a bad hall often as well, and only have a 8-track recorder that does 44.1khz. I've been thinking of buying either an Alesis HD24 for the 96khz option or a DSD recorder.

It seems like I see more of the opposite opinion around in the forums, but I've not really seen a discussion of it in the Remote forum (unless I missed it).

[KSwan]

I'm not sure if this will work, I've never tried it before: How about editing the raw data of the DSD file on your computer with a hex editor? Here's the one I've used in the past (OS X): Apple - Downloads - Development Tools - 0xED
You should certainly be able to make edits using this method. The files, of course, wouldn't be playable on your computer, you'd have to bring them back over to the Korg. Fades would require designing an algorithm. I don't think that would be too difficult, however.

I used to edit WAVs like this.

[Plush]

Just transfer and edit on analog tape.
No big deal---you're done quickly.

[Westmalle]

Corran: "So in your opinion, in that bad hall, what ended up happening with the DSD is that once mixed down to audio CD, the increase in clarity would be unsubstantial? And that 96khz and up is not much better at all than 44?"

Yes, exactly. Conversion to 44k diminishes the clarity. But I don't think that the 44k of the Korg is bad at all.
I will have to compare the recorded 44k with the DSD to 44k converted sound.

For me the difference between 44k ad 192k is considerably less, than the difference between 192 and DSD.

"I wonder because I record in a bad hall often as well, and only have a 8-track recorder that does 44.1khz. I've been thinking of buying either an Alesis HD24 for the 96khz option or a DSD recorder."

I think that 8 track DSD would be fantastic. 96k is better than 44k, I never used it, but I can imagine that 96k gives a better resolution for plug-ins.

[Westmalle]

Originally Posted by Plush

Just transfer and edit on analog tape.
No big deal---you're done quickly.

I have no taperecorder
I suppose all options cost more than my budget allows..

[Corran]

Thanks Westmalle for your observations. Do they make an 8-track DSD recorder? I haven't seen one but I haven't really looked either.

[Westmalle]

Originally Posted by Corran

Thanks Westmalle for your observations. Do they make an 8-track DSD recorder? I haven't seen one but I haven't really looked either.

No.