Totally lost on the best way to do this. Live Sound w/ 2 mics

[jjcalleiro]

Heres the scenario...
Just got a new job working for a website that goes to live venues to film shows & do documentary still footage of local events. They have nice cameres & video gear, but the sound picked up by the cameras as you can expect is hideous and sounds like the onboard mics have blown up.

They asked me if i could do some research on a simple way to atleast capture the sound of the show without having it sound like complete garbage.

I was thinking of some stereo mic setup at the back of the room with a possible small PT setup.

Let me know what you think and your advice please!

Thanks!

Ps.
Also, how would you do this on a budget (afforable as possible while still sounding decent.)

[Jim vanBergen]

Easiest & cheapest?

1) Board feed on one channel

2) Camera-mounted Shotgun mic on the other

3) mix to taste in post.

Jvb

[jjcalleiro]

Thanks, i think they can do something a little more elaborate than that. lets say the budget is around 2000.

[Corran]

I believe the Rode NT-4 was somewhat designed for this. Only $479. You can mount it to the camera to I believe (I don't know as I don't do video work).

[jjcalleiro]

there setup for the shows is usually 3 guys running around getting al sorts of shots, so mounting the camera is kinda out of the question.

[Corran]

Okay. Still a decent single-point stereo mic. Can also run on battery power.

[Jim vanBergen]

For jam bands that have a good groove, I have heard wonderful recordings done at the stage lip. But from my remote experience, I think that's quite dangerous unless you KNOW the band will sound great from that POV.

If you're reaching for a 'tapers POV' then right in front of (close, or as near as possible to) the FOH mix position you go.

Why not choose the best stereo pre and mics you can for that budget? For under 2k, you could do something like a compact Apogee or Grace preamp and a decent single-point stereo mic like the Crown Sass-P, Beyer MCE72, Sennheiser MKE44, Studio Projects LSD2, Avantone CK40, or something along those lines?

I personally have always used a matched pair of mics as they offer me more flexibility, but a fixed single-point mic will set up MUCH faster, and most if not all will come with a custom harness/XLR assembly.

[jjcalleiro]

Thanks for the advice ill look into all those mics.
We frequent the same venues and these venues usually have very complete and good sounding pa's where they mic every instrument. Shows range from 100 - 1000 people.

Is there any small portable recorders that you guys have experience with, so i dont have to lug around a PT rig?

[nickynicknick]

Originally Posted by jjcalleiro

Thanks for the advice ill look into all those mics.
We frequent the same venues and these venues usually have very complete and good sounding pa's where they mic every instrument. Shows range from 100 - 1000 people.

Is there any small portable recorders that you guys have experience with, so i dont have to lug around a PT rig?

How about your laptop and Logic software...nothing to lug there..also if you frequent the same clubs and are friends with the house tech why not see about getting an alternate mix from the board either from an extra aux send, direct outs(with separate console), group outs or matrix out...you have options..I would try to do at least eight tracks of recording so you can make some adjustments and be able to enhance the mix a little...if you can't, then a good stereo pair can work too, but mostly only for bands that are well balanced on stage....rare.

Nick

[Remoteness]

If you're 24 tracks or less why not go with an HD24XR.
It's pretty much bullet proof.

[pkautzsch]

Originally Posted by jjcalleiro

there setup for the shows is usually 3 guys running around getting al sorts of shots, so mounting the camera is kinda out of the question.

What cams are these? Any chance of recording a stereo pair to Cam A, and four tracks of board feed and/or shotguns to Cams B&C?
How much post-production is usually done? Any chance for a "real" mixing session? I've seen stuff where they simply (and audibly) used what was recorded onto the cam they used the picture of.

[Remoteness]

Yeah, or even send a stereo mix to one camera and iso tracks to each and every camera after that if applicable.

[Shadow_7]

Originally Posted by jjcalleiro

I was thinking of some stereo mic setup at the back of the room with a possible small PT setup.

I'm just wondering what type of stereo image you'll be getting at the "back" of the room. Unless it's a small room.

[ghellquist]

It sounds to me that the information you are asking for is better optained from the forum taperssection.com . On that forum are the people doing taping of rock shows and similar, sometimes stealthing, sometimes in the open.

From my small experience I would suggest that you aim for a good mic and a good preamp and then run the sound into one of the cameras through a long cable. This will save a bit of hassle in synching sound to video when that is needed. The "professional" solution to synching sound and video is to use time code, but this takes you to another level in costs for the equipment.

As for mics, quality does come at a price. My personal favourite is the Schoeps MSTC64, but that does come quite a bit above your budget. You should probably be very happy with a pair of Roede mics or perhaps a pair of Octava MK012. For stereo recording you then also need a short stereo bar and this will make setup just a little bit more complicated. Of course a good stand rising a bit up is needed as well. Typical position when possible, right in front of the mixer position.

In parallell with recording to the camera you can run a small recorder all the time. Personally I run a Sound Devices 722, but again we are a bit above your budget. One unit I have godd personal experience of is the Korg MR1000. But there are probably around 50 units on the market right now, do check the tapers section.

Happy recordings

GUnnar

[Beyersound]

Board feed into one camera's vtr(or DTR), room mics in stereo to another iso camera vtr. You could even use a stereo mic like a Shure VP88 that is specially made for that exact task. Be sure to delay the board feed to the mics in post. Have recorded hundreds of artists succesfully this way.

[MichaelPatrick]

I'd get a quality handheld stereo recorder that can go on a tripod or mic stand, like the Sony PCM-D1 for about $1,500, or the PCM-D50 for about $500.

Put it up front on a stand or tripod. You can also get a small lightweight clamp that'll let you attach it to the side of any tall mic stand -- assuming there is one and the recording engineer who owns it lets you.

Then, import the wav file and align it with the video in post production.